Sorry, yes I will help with the trouble shoot, I was reflecting on my problems, with other problems in mind, nothing to do with Ut, if I can help I will, again I'm sorry for bringing other problems to bear within the forum....... Ut has always worked very well for me, thanks for the time and effort. Edit....... Ok, I just updated from 1.7.7 again to 1.8, it works great again, thankyou. I'm sorry for being negative on the forum, I run a company in Thailand that is about to go tits up, due to to ex PM fucking around with the econemy, and the new PM being a puppet to the old. Next week I have to lay off 20 people and feel like shit because of that, sorry for bringing this to the forum......