Disk / System resources issues

janimal · January 27, 2007

Hi all,

This is a bit of a long tale so please forgive me!

I switched from Azureus to uTorrent in Late November (& at the same time changed ISP from ADSLMax to ADSL2.)

I also incidentaly reconfigured my system to set it up as a dual boot linux. As a result I wiped my disks, repartitioned to accomodate the two operating systems and re-installed windows (XP Pro SP2). I use windows most of the time so I wanted a torrent client on there and chose uTorrent.

I have been veyr happy with uTorrent, but have suffered system instability ever since. I keep getting the same error - After between 1 day upto 7 days of the system running (& sharing) I get an error from windows - "System registry exceeded maximum limit further registry writes will be ignored" - paraphrasing the error there. at this point much of windows no longer works - MMC, Event log, Run command etc... a rebooting both normal and into safe mode fail and get into a restart loop.

Using CHKDSK, FIXMBR and FIXBOOT from repair console don't work - only running a repair installation seems to fix it. Then the problem occurs again. I have done this 12 times in two months on the last four occasions disconnecting all but the system drive reformatting it and starting from scratch.

I thought I may have accidentaly downloaded something nasty, so I have run several rootkit scanners, AVG's, anti-spyware, Hijack this, and examined system processes in excrutiating detail. I have also run Memtest86 and drive diagnostics for each drive.

Since the start of this month I have been re-installing everything but each time leaving out one piece of software to eliminate the culprit. Finally it seems stable and uTorrent is the program I have not installed this time.

So my best guess is disk performance vs 16Mbps/s dl speed. I have searched the forums and not found any similar problems though. I have never received a disk overload error from uTorrent.

Do you think I can solve this with tweaking the caching options? My system info is below

Athlon 2800

1Gb ddr 333

Abit Nvidia Mobo NSF7 -ish

2 x SATA 150 - 120GB - Seagates

300gb Seagate IDE

60gb Maxtor IDE

Netgear DG834N (Upnp Off - using port forwarding)

Software:

No firewall - XP firewall - off

AVG7.5

I'm still not by any means certain it is a uTorrent problem, but I need some input from someone!!

Cheers,

Janimal

Switeck · January 28, 2007

There's probably some advanced settings in µTorrent to at least slow how often it writes any registry entries.

...though I wasn't aware it did any registry writes/reads in the first place!

janimal · January 28, 2007

Hi Switeck,

Well I was thinking the registry error was a side effect perhaps caused by something else trying to keep up with the Disk writes?

I don't dl to the system disk - I always use another drive.

The other strange thing though is that Win XP Pro SP2 isn't supposed to have any registry limit, so that error should never occur anyway :/

Switeck · January 28, 2007

There's a LOT of commercial software and hardware drivers that don't work well together.

...much of it has NEVER been tested together, so if you have alot of mix-and-match software...don't be too upset if things don't work well.

µTorrent can be the 'canary in a coal mine' that dies when nothing else seems wrong, but even then it might not be µTorrent's fault!

Do you have a router to keep the worst of the internet out/off of your computer?

Ultima · January 28, 2007

...though I wasn't aware it did any registry writes/reads in the first place!

Because it only writes to the registry upon user request -- only the .torrent association, startup entry, and (maybe, not too sure about this one) Windows Firewall features actually touch the Registry.

@janimal: Have you checked the list of incompatible software as listed in the FAQ? Can you get Process Explorer from sysinternals.com, File > Save, then post the contents of the saved process list in the .txt file here?

janimal · January 29, 2007

Hi Ultima & Switek

I did check the FAQ for incompatible software before posting and didn't spot anything that I use on there. However an extra pair of eyes is always useful!!

Here's my process list from Sysinternals (when were they bought by MS???) couldn't see an add attachment option so the txt is included at the bottom.

There are a couple of notable pieces of software I haven't re-installed at this moment apart from uTorrent.

The main one is Daemon tools, which has seemed fairly unstable since they started using the sptd driver.

In addition I previously would have had some canon & fuji camera software on there but I have a usb card reader now so I can avoid all that rubbish.

Also my normal system would have Winamp and realplayer 8, and adobe photoshop CS2 however I configure the taskbar processes not to run until I want them. Several 3d graphics packages, Corel Painter, and open office.

xammp apache for windows (only running when developing webstuff), VS2005 (IIS turned off) and VMWare workstation 3.1 are curently installed along with il-2 forgotten battles and GTA San Andreas

As for firewalls, my machines sit behind a router so there are no software firewalls and windows' firewall is turned off.

The machine is currently very stable, so tonight I will install uTorrent and leave it running for a week - if it survives I'll start adding some of the other software.

I have removed the wpa registry entries from the following but everthing else is there.

Thanks for your time,

Janimal

Process PID CPU Description Company Name

System Idle Process 0 94

Interrupts n/a 2 Hardware Interrupts

DPCs n/a 2 Deferred Procedure Calls

System 4

smss.exe 748 Windows NT Session Manager Microsoft Corporation

csrss.exe 800 Client Server Runtime Process Microsoft Corporation

winlogon.exe 828 Windows NT Logon Application Microsoft Corporation

services.exe 872 2 Services and Controller app Microsoft Corporation

svchost.exe 1048 Generic Host Process for Win32 Services Microsoft Corporation

svchost.exe 1104 Generic Host Process for Win32 Services Microsoft Corporation

svchost.exe 1748 Generic Host Process for Win32 Services Microsoft Corporation

svchost.exe 1864 Generic Host Process for Win32 Services Microsoft Corporation

spoolsv.exe 496 Spooler SubSystem App Microsoft Corporation

avgamsvr.exe 744 AVG Alert Manager GRISOFT, s.r.o.

avgupsvc.exe 768 AVG Update Service GRISOFT, s.r.o.

avgemc.exe 192 AVG E-Mail Scanner GRISOFT, s.r.o.

nvsvc32.exe 604 NVIDIA Driver Helper Service, Version 93.71 NVIDIA Corporation

svchost.exe 1448 Generic Host Process for Win32 Services Microsoft Corporation

wdfmgr.exe 1508 Windows User Mode Driver Manager Microsoft Corporation

vmware-authd.exe 1728 VMware Authorization Service VMware, Inc.

vmnat.exe 312 VMware NAT Service VMware, Inc.

vmnetdhcp.exe 1372 VMware VMnet DCHP Service VMware, Inc.

alg.exe 272 Application Layer Gateway Service Microsoft Corporation

lsass.exe 884 LSA Shell (Export Version) Microsoft Corporation

explorer.exe 732 Windows Explorer Microsoft Corporation

avgcc.exe 1148 AVG Control Center GRISOFT, s.r.o.

NvMixerTray.exe 1156 NVIDIA nForce Mixer Tray Application NVIDIA Corporation

jusched.exe 1168 Java 2 Platform Standard Edition binary Sun Microsystems, Inc.

rundll32.exe 1204 Run a DLL as an App Microsoft Corporation

ProfilerU.exe 1248 Manual Configuration Saitek

SaiMfd.exe 1276 Saitek MFD File System Driver Saitek

ctfmon.exe 1284 CTF Loader Microsoft Corporation

firefox.exe 2368 Firefox Mozilla Corporation

procexp.exe 3224 2 Sysinternals Process Explorer Sysinternals

Process: System Pid: 4

Type Name

Directory \Device\Harddisk0

Directory \Device\Harddisk1

Directory \Device\Harddisk2

Directory \Device\Harddisk3

Directory \Device\WinDfs

Directory \Device\Harddisk4

Event \Security\TRKWKS_EVENT

Event \BaseNamedObjects\PrefetchTracesReady

Event \Device\DmControl\VxKernel2VoldEvent

Event \LanmanServerAnnounceEvent

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{8300946C-291E-4E36-8B8A-77D18724EA03}

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{D6D218BC-5FF1-43DD-B03C-3256C2C29492}

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{8300946C-291E-4E36-8B8A-77D18724EA03}

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{E666AC57-F89D-4368-8AE5-1536DE533E55}

File \Device\Tcp

File C:\System Volume Information\_restore{3EE5AB7A-CDEF-464D-AFFA-771005E9AB05}\RP24\change.log

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\Ip

File \Device\RawIp\47

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{D6D218BC-5FF1-43DD-B03C-3256C2C29492}

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{8300946C-291E-4E36-8B8A-77D18724EA03}

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\Udp

File \Device\RawIp\1

File \Device\Udp

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{D6D218BC-5FF1-43DD-B03C-3256C2C29492}

File C:\Documents and Settings\NetworkService\ntuser.dat.LOG

File C:\Documents and Settings\NetworkService\NTUSER.DAT

File C:\Documents and Settings\NetworkService\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat

File C:\Documents and Settings\NetworkService\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat.LOG

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{D6D218BC-5FF1-43DD-B03C-3256C2C29492}

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{8300946C-291E-4E36-8B8A-77D18724EA03}

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{E666AC57-F89D-4368-8AE5-1536DE533E55}

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{D6D218BC-5FF1-43DD-B03C-3256C2C29492}

File \Device\NetbiosSmb

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{8300946C-291E-4E36-8B8A-77D18724EA03}

File \Device\NetbiosSmb

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{E666AC57-F89D-4368-8AE5-1536DE533E55}

File \Device\NamedPipe\

File \Device\NetbiosSmb

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{8300946C-291E-4E36-8B8A-77D18724EA03}

File \Device\NetbiosSmb

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{E666AC57-F89D-4368-8AE5-1536DE533E55}

File \Device\00000077\topology

File C:\Documents and Settings\jan\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat.LOG

File C:\Documents and Settings\jan\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat

File C:\Documents and Settings\jan\ntuser.dat.LOG

File \Device\NetbiosSmb

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{D6D218BC-5FF1-43DD-B03C-3256C2C29492}

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{E666AC57-F89D-4368-8AE5-1536DE533E55}

File C:\Documents and Settings\jan\ntuser.dat

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{8300946C-291E-4E36-8B8A-77D18724EA03}

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\Udp

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{8300946C-291E-4E36-8B8A-77D18724EA03}

File \Device\NetbiosSmb

File \Device\Mup

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{D6D218BC-5FF1-43DD-B03C-3256C2C29492}

File \Device\LanmanRedirector

File C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat.LOG

File C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT

File C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\ntuser.dat.LOG

File C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{E666AC57-F89D-4368-8AE5-1536DE533E55}

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\Gpc

File \Device\Tcp

File C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\default.LOG

File C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\system

File C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\default

File C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\software.LOG

File C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\SECURITY.LOG

File C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\SECURITY

File C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\system.LOG

File \Device\Tcp

File C:\pagefile.sys

File \Device\Udp

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\Udp

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\Udp

File C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\software

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\Gpc

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\Udp

File C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\SAM

File \Device\Tcp

File \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{E666AC57-F89D-4368-8AE5-1536DE533E55}

File C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\SAM.LOG

File \Device\Tcp

Key HKLM\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters

Key \REGISTRY

Key HKLM\SYSTEM\Setup

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DESCRIPTION\System\MultifunctionAdapter

Key HKLM\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\ProductOptions

Key HKLM\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\Eventlog

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DEVICEMAP\Scsi\Scsi Port 2\Scsi Bus 1\Initiator Id 255

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DEVICEMAP\Scsi\Scsi Port 2

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DEVICEMAP\Scsi\Scsi Port 2\Scsi Bus 1

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DEVICEMAP\Scsi\Scsi Port 2\Scsi Bus 0\Initiator Id 255

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DEVICEMAP\Scsi\Scsi Port 2\Scsi Bus 1\Target Id 0\Logical Unit Id 0

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DEVICEMAP\Scsi

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DEVICEMAP\Scsi\Scsi Port 2\Scsi Bus 0

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DEVICEMAP\Scsi\Scsi Port 2\Scsi Bus 0\Target Id 0\Logical Unit Id 0

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DEVICEMAP\Scsi\Scsi Port 2\Scsi Bus 0\Target Id 0

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DEVICEMAP\Scsi\Scsi Port 2\Scsi Bus 1\Target Id 0

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DESCRIPTION\System\MultifunctionAdapter

Key HKLM\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Video\{009DC7CF-0EAE-4126-A04E-A4A1512AEBA6}\0000\VolatileSettings

Key HKLM\HARDWARE\DESCRIPTION\System\MultifunctionAdapter

Key HKLM\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\Avg7RsXP\Parameters

Port \SeRmCommandPort

Process System(4)

Process svchost.exe(1748)

Process wdfmgr.exe(1508)

Process spoolsv.exe(496)

Process explorer.exe(732)

Process lsass.exe(884)

Process jusched.exe(1168)

Process lsass.exe(884)

Thread System(4): 12

Thread System(4): 96

Thread System(4): 104

Thread System(4): 160

Thread System(4): 124

Thread System(4): 120

Thread System(4): 288

Thread System(4): 296

Thread System(4): 724

Thread System(4): 292

Thread System(4): 128

Thread System(4): 164

Thread System(4): 372

Token NT AUTHORITY\ANONYMOUS LOGON

janimal · January 29, 2007

oops I forgot another piece of crap that doesn't seem very stable is Nero 7 I only have burning rom and imagedrive - and I keep them unloaded until necessary.

Falcon4 · January 29, 2007

You have too many programs installed (uTorrent does not install, therefore this is a very odd place to put this problem). The registry can only grow to be a certain size.

Not being able to write to the registry, you have a very serious issue on your hands. The registry is the heart of Windows. You have got to get it fixed - or rather, cleaned. You should use a registry "defragmenter" (NTREGOPT) to rebuild your registry files to a proper size. After that, uninstall programs you aren't using and run it again. You may want to run a registry "cleaner" to pick up the scattered pieces and delete them, but be careful - many tools are bundled with malware - or worse, malware themselves. Try to find a suggestion on another forum (I would suggest Googling for "forum registry cleaner" and look for a forum result) - the "paid results" and PageRank hacks are typically at the top and just begging for some poor sap to come along and click them. Be careful.

But one thing is for dead certain: it's not uTorrent's fault.

edit: If you frequently install and uninstall programs, that's causing more problems than it's solving. Try this defragmenter trick and see if it works afterwards. Please note: a registry defragmenter is NOT the same as a disk defragmenter - the disk defragmenter merely defragments the files themselves, while a registry defragmenter rebuilds the registry files (the source of the problem).

edit edit: Look in your C:\Windows\System32\config folder for the files: SAM, SYSTEM, SOFTWARE, SECURITY (all with no extension - not the LOGs). What are the sizes of these files? Also look in your C:\Documents and Settings\(Username) folder for the NTUSER.DAT file. These are your registry files.

janimal · January 29, 2007

Hi falcon4,

Thanks for your response, I think you may have misread my posts. uTorrent does install, but since reconfiguring my system and swapping from Azureus to uTorrent (as well as changing from an upto 8Mbps ADSL to an upto 24Mbps (actual dl throughput 13-16Mbps) I have experienced disk errors and system instability. As I said I have run diagnostics on the drives, ran memtest etc...

So there are quite a few variables which have changed from my previous stable system to the current problem. I don't however frequently install and uninstall software, I just have a (rather large) list of stuff I require for work and play

I disagree with your diagnosis that I simply have too many programs installed. I am a 40 year old with a Soft Eng degree who has been developing commercial windows applications for 10 years. So I do have some experience with windows systems and how far I can push them.

The setup I have described is positively minimal compared to how it was setup prior to my rebuild and installing uTorrent (on the previous build I was using Azureus but was getting annoyed at having to turn it off whenever I was doing serious work and then having to remember to turn it on again when the system was idle).

I really like uTorrent's small footprint and excellent scheduling capabilities.

I have used registry cleaners and examined in detail what entries they have removed however there was nothing extraordinary in the entries.

There are basically 4 things different to it's previous stable (but very bloated) configuration.

1) much less software installed.

2) uTorrent instead of Azureus

3) Deamon tools 4.something as opposed to 3. something

4) Nero 7 instead of Nero 5.something

(I have had a few glasses of wine and can't be bothered to find the exact version differences right now, if I find any of these are the problem I will post the exact build numbers)

Windows XP SP2 has no registry size limit since Win2k (it used to be 14mb or thereabouts off the top of my head).

edit: see this article: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/292726

When you have no size limit on the registry it really doesn't matter how many programs you have installed, although obviously there is a point where huge amounts of registry entries do affect performance. Rather it is about how many programs you have running (background tasks, services etc...). however sometimes apps attempt a lot of writes to the registry (bad practice) but it does sometimes happen. I haven't used regmon to try to determine if that is happening, the trouble is I can't predict when the error will occur and once it has it is too late. This is one of those irritating problems which only occurs while I am away from the machine - at night for example when I have scheduled uTorrent to do it's downloading.

As I said I am not positive that it is uTorrent that is the problem, and Switek may well be correct in that it might be an unfortunate combination of software and hardware. Or it could of course be something completely unrelated to uTorrent. Let's face it windows is no saint and has surprised me often while designing code.

I think there is a very strong possiblity it could be the latest version on Daemon tools, which has seemed particularly unstable.

Anyway I will re-install uTorrent tonight and leave it running for a while see if I get any problems. If I do I will try the same thing without Nero 7, in fact completely clean install with only uTorrent.

I have been forum trawling and trying to diagnose this for weeks before posting on here.

I hope this doesn't sound like a flame, I do appreciate anyone taking the time to respond. I just want to make sure I have stated the situation clearly.

Have a good night all...

Janimal

Falcon4 · January 29, 2007

I'm sure you'll tell me that a swap file is an absolute requirement in Windows XP SP2 as well.

(FWIW, I've been running swap-free since slightly before January 2005, using the SP2 beta - but recently with Vista I've had no choice but to swap it and hope they fixed the problems with swap file usage)

Anyway, no, uTorrent does not "install". It is a standalone program with a data folder. It does not store settings in the registry nor does it rely on the bloated Windows Installer structure (edit: or any other installer for that matter, e.g. InstallShield, NSIS, Ghost, etc). That's what I mean by, "it doesn't install".

You should still try running that registry rebuilder. If you really are a software nerd, you should understand how jacked up the registry file can become scrambled and unusable - and this error message you receive should be a perfect indicator of where the problem lies...

janimal · January 30, 2007

Hi falcon4,

Ok sorry if I offended you. but my point about the registry is the same. I reformatted the drives and re-installed windows. Then installed a few selected programs, to determine which one my system is having a problem with. Currently it is stable in the state i described without uTorrent installed (or daemon tools).

The point I am making is that after 10 - 12 rebuilds in the last 8 weeks (the last four of which have been complete reformats of two different target system disks) the chances of it being bloated registry syndrome are very small.

As for swap disks - I have no opinion. It is not an area I claim to have any expertise in. Just a lot of experience of trying to get my code to work with various flavours of windows which also involves a lot of intimate fiddling with the registry

I was trying hard to avoid that "I am more experienced than you" flame cycle but at the same time trying to limit the "have you tried rebooting?" posts. I read a lot of forums but rarely post, mainly due to the number of misunderstandings I witness. So please don't take this personally.

The registry is the first place I looked to solve this problem and I am positive that the registry error is a side effect. I have tried running registry fixers and cleaners.

Anyway as I said, I will now install utorrent on this currently stable system and see what happens.

Lord Alderaan · February 1, 2007

First, do you know why and what

rundll32.exe 1204 Run a DLL as an App Microsoft Corporation

is running?

afaik, it usually only runs for short tasks (while installing hardware, software and windows updates). Your probably more knowledgeable then me but that stroke me ass odd.

And based on that process I'd say you are indeed running a pretty much minimal software configuration.

I agree with µtorrent not being a likely sole cause of the problem. Even Nero seems almost just as unlikely to me. Daemon-Tools however does funky things. I've used Daemon-Tools for years including the newest version without problems but it does nest pretty deep in windows nowadays. If posible try uninstalling it and see if you still have the same problems.

Switeck · February 1, 2007

You can run all the registry cleaners you want, but you'll probably never get to the same state as a fresh install of windows after adding/removing lots of programs.

When was the last time you reinstalled to an almost new windows environment?

(I personally use hard drive images for this...MUCH faster than Microsoft's dog-and-pony show.)

janimal · February 6, 2007

Hello again all...

@Switek - er I thought I mentioned I had completely and utterly re-installed windows about 12 times since November?

Anyway, I can confirm it wasn't uTorrent causing the problem. I have been monitoring the registry and uTorrent almost never touches it.

I eventually found some others who have been having similar problems, all of them with nVidia Mobos. No one can confirm it but it seems to be an nVidia driver corrupting the registry at some point. And my nVidia mixer accesses the registry virtually continually.

Something basically corrupts the registry and I then get "The windows registry has reached the maximum size limit etc...etc..." and shortly afterwards the whole system falls apart.

Weirdly MS claim XP sp2 has no reg size limit. When I last got the error my hives had reached 36mb and this is on the minimal install I have been running since my last rebuild.

So I ran NTREGOPT which reduced the registry by 84%

I am sure the problem will resurface sometime in the future, but at least NTREGOPT seems to be able to fix it.

Anyway you can sleep easy, uTorrent is completely blameless I am sure.

I am going to build a new PC soon anyway, I don't think I'll be bothering with nVidia anymore though. I have been using them for years, but have had nothing but trouble with their gear lately.

Thanks for all your responses.

Janimal

Falcon4 · February 6, 2007

Told ya.

janimal · February 7, 2007

oh FFS! How old are you?

Yes NTREGOPT did fix my reg, but you also said I had "too many programs installed"

thanks anyway

Falcon4 · February 7, 2007

I'm 20.

I had mentioned you had gone through too many programs installed/uninstalled, which leaves holes in the registry that NTREGOPT fixes.

But at any rate I'm glad you got it fixed.

Disk / System resources issues

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