Super-seed auto-off after X amount of seeds

[Ares]

Okay, I searched around and didn't exactly see this requested. I'm slightly surprised, so forgive me if it has indeed been requested.

Considering that super-seeding kind of loses its usefulness after there are several seeds in the swarm, would it not be a good idea to go from super-seeding to plain seeding after there are X amount of seeds in the swarm? I know most people do this manually, but this would help if you're just starting a torrent and have to run somewhere for a few hours.

EDIT: Also, maybe an option to continue sending data if there is only 1 peer in the swarm. Kind of wasteful to let it just sit there, waiting on that 1 peer to send data to other peers that don't exist.

Just a thought,

-Ares

[Firon]

Super-seeding should turn off the moment there's another seed in the swarm. It's also useless if there's only 1 peer in the swarm.

[Ares]

It would be nice if some of this were automated. Something like:

If 1 peer, then seed normally.

If >1 peer and 0 seeds, super-seed.

If 1 seed or more, seed normally.

-Ares

[Firon]

Yeah, it should be automated... though there should be a grace period to prevent it from switching back and forth too quickly. Maybe it should stay super-seeding until the next announce period, or until X amount of minutes of seeing a seed have passed. Not sure.

[StirolXXX]

Agree! Nice idea!

[1c3d0g]

It would be nice if some of this were automated. Something like:

If 1 peer, then seed normally.

If >1 peer and 0 seeds, super-seed.

If 1 seed or more, seed normally.

-Ares

Indeed. I just posted something like this a moment ago...this is really a good feature.

[DreadWingKnight]

Super-seeding should turn off the moment there's another seed in the swarm.

Sometimes that doesn't help. If that seed isn't playing nice, you have to.

Automatic turning off of super-seed mode has been requested on other forums (BitTornado and ABC) and has been shot down as problematic.

There are situations where it needs to be off, but the "1 other seed already present" isn't one of them.

[Ares]

Yeah, that's why I was thinking when X amount of seeds are present. Maybe let there be 3 seeds before auto-off. This way you don't have to sit around and watch it to do it manually.

EDIT: Most likely this would still turn super-seeding off when the first seed appears, because typically when I super-seed I see about 10 people become seeds at the same time.

-Ares

[Moody]

This is an excellent idea and IMO should have been part of the original super seed specification. It has several advantages not least of, not allowing inexperieced users to use Super seed mode at the wrong time.

[CainKellye]

Super-seed slows down the upload when the number of peers is less than 5-6 peers. So it should only turn on automatically when there is more than 6 peers.

[shr]

I agree only with situation there number of peers is low.

It makes no sense to tun off super-seed even if number of seeds is huge.

Behavior of SS is to reduce outbound traffic and to use in a maximum way the peers to redistribute the missing parts. Nothing chages when number of seeds for example > 10.

I still want to save the traffic for smth else.

[Firon]

Super-seeding should never be used in situations where there's more than one seed. And this is according to the spec creators. That is why you should NOT use it. What you need to do is seed normally and just cap your upload to "save the traffic"

[NiteShdw]

Isn't that the point of this request? uTorrent should automatically stop super-seeding when there is more than 1 seed in the swarm

[splintax]

Great idea, +1.

[Honeyfrog]

I don't think super(initial)-seeding loses its effectiveness as all in multi-seed torrents, because it still focuses upon seeding the least available pieces. This is helpful when the other seeds have their upload throttled to 1k/s and the torrent has large piece-sizes. By staying in initial-seeding mode, you help create additional seeds faster.

[Switeck]

Why is it that initial seeding doesn't work well when there's less than 6 peers?

Is this 6 connected peers or just 6 peers reported by the tracker?

[Ultima]

Probably because less peers are asking for pieces, and it might take longer for pieces to appear more than once in the swarm with less peers.

you help create additional seeds faster.

And that matters because...?

[Honeyfrog]

It matters because we're preferentially seeding the rarest pieces rather than the most requested ones; this maintains the health of multi-file torrents in particular.

Why is it that initial seeding doesn't work well when there's less than 6 peers?

If it's a brand new torrent, uber-fast peers may not have shown up yet. Here's another reason: http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=25753 (Example: If most or all peers will only download a "sample" file first with rest marked "Do not download", initial-seeding is troublesome if the sample file doesn't contain piece #0; paradoxically this is a case where regular seeding gets the torrent off the ground faster when it's new, while initial seeding keeps it healthy later on).

[Ultima]

So what does that have to do with creating a new seed faster? Initial seeding is not about creating new seeds faster. It's about getting all the pieces out to the swarm in less bandwidth. You don't need to create a new seed in order to get the rare pieces out to the swarm. In fact, it's even better if it doesn't create a new seed immediately, and only gets all the pieces out to the swarm. That way, you don't have leechers becoming seeds for 5 seconds and leaving.

[Honeyfrog]

You don't need to create a new seed in order to get the rare pieces out to the swarm. In fact, it's even better if it doesn't create a new seed immediately, and only gets all the pieces out to the swarm. That way, you don't have leechers becoming seeds for 5 seconds and leaving.

Some of the worst leeches are those who "linger" as seeds after finishing (outputting 1k/s) and fooling other potential seeds into leaving earlier than they might otherwise (if they traded over 100%, why should they stay in an apparently healthy torrent?). A leech-cum-seed dropping random 16k fragments here and there is next to useless; it'd be better if they actually were gone in 5 seconds, prompting others to stay longer.

If a see a torrent in this state (sometimes one of mine), I'll pop up in initial-seeding mode and dish out an extra layer of the rarest pieces, creating an additional distributed copy (which is marked as a "seed" by some trackers).

[Ultima]

Again, under initial seeding, availability >= 2.0 is the target, not creating new seeds, so those "lingering" seeds wouldn't even be created before other seeds if initial seeding is working as it should be. In general, under initial seeding, many of the peers end up completing the torrent at around the same time. Even if those lingering seeds got created after other seeds, it really has nothing to do with super seeding any longer.