Data Anonymity

[repeteor]

Ok it seams that when i mention encryption people get a bit up-tight, so let me try to explain myself.

There is at present major changes being made to laws all over the globe to stop file sharing Full Stop. There is no point in arguing the fact because the wheels are already in motion and it is not going to take long before they start focusing there attention to the software that enables people to share files. Whether we like it or not governments and ISP's are going to be walking hand in hand in the fight against terrorism, sorry i meant file sharing and also the developers that make file shearing possible ( a big up to ya btw ).

The majority of the people i know who use torrent software are not dumb or under educated people at all but i think we need to start realizing that the technique for transferring data from one pc to another needs a very serious rethink. We all think that governments want to stop the public deluge of copyrighted data but if you open your eyes to the world around you this is not the case imo. The world seams to be sliding into a " control " freak environment and all the new legislation's designed to protect the public ( that's what they want us to believe ) are in fact slowly taking or freedom and rights away and deciding FOR US what we should do with our lives and not the other way around, in other words say good night and good luck to your privacy.

" The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it "

Albert Einstein

I personally feel that torrent software and sites are flawed because of the way they are operated, they are publicising illegal activity and drawing negative attention to data sharing to there own demise. The torrent sites have to go, i see no other way, searching must be encrypted and naturally the results to.

Please don't jump down my throat at these comments because it is really that black and white.

So what can be done about all of the above ? that people is why i started this thread, Discussion !!!

This is interesting but very deep and if you move to figure 4 it's explained in a more simplified fashion.

http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/proxy.pdf

It would be great to hear your thoughts on this.

kind regards

pete

[The8472]

encryption by itself does not anonymize, indirection combined with encryption and careful protocol design (such as I2P) does but costs considerable amount of bandwidth (it basically increases it 3-fold, or decreases your effective throughput 3-fold, depending on how you look at it), thus it is not something you'd build as a feature into something which is designed to do fast and efficient transfer. And those are the design goals of bittorrent, not piracy.

If you want keep bittorrenting legal then widespread adoption is necessary, it's almost impossible to outlaw something that a majority of the population does (think of prohibition), "going underground" would just make the whole thing more... "exclusive" and thus easier to prosecute.

Read: Suggestion = Instant Fail

[repeteor]

We are not talking about Techno music and extacy The8472 i guess your a port.

Your reply is a contradiction: If you want keep bittorrenting legal, widespread adoption is necessary wtf ?

If you want to keep your rave from being detected by police you should not have a web site promoting your party or i am blind. You completely misunderstood my post and decided to use useless politics.

" it's almost impossible to outlaw something that a majority of the population does " thats exactly what they are doing are you blind. I am sorry but your post was what i expected, another popularity rant with the same old smell. You obviously do not understand the politics of the world around you and you don't read the news.

look at this film and open your mind.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

or better still, download the dvd. You know where to find it.

ITS FREE BTW

Read: Suggestion = Instant Fail " what luck for the rulers that men do not think " this was said before the second world war 1938 i think, by the very man who started it !!!

[jewelisheaven]

... ? <insert foot into mouth>

Encryption keeps third parties from inspecting your packets. You are not anonymous when using bittorrent. Your IP:port are transmitted to other peers. That's how you connect and interact with peers. ANYONE on the swarm can see who you are and allegedly what you are downloading due to the INFOHASH being broadcasted.

[repeteor]

well that gives credibility to my post don't you think ?

if there is a system were third parties can not possibly decrypt between client and source we are in business don't you think. At the end of the day the encrypted way still cause's discomfort for no rhyme or reason. OK it's slower but its more effective would you not agree ?

Put it like this, i don't like leechers because it's negative data.

A man spends years building a music collection with more than 500gbs of mp3 files. He uploads his music collection in stages over a twelve month period and what does he get in return ? the one mp3 that he really wants takes 3 days to download. 5MB at 0.1 kbs because i got what i wanted so fuck you i will not seed. This is why the whole torrent system is flawed its way too easy to hit an run.

[jewelisheaven]

While I dislike those who do not give back, I am understanding in that you have to remember, one of the benefits of torrenting is that you can make a swarm in as little as 1-2-3. Torrents are also not a permanent solution for content, the peers join / leave / die on a regular basis... But I just shared this awesome DVD linux ISO image I created myself over 3 days due to my limited upload, but due to initial seeding mode, right when I uploaded 1.150 ratio, there were 4 seeds and 6.800 copies available ... Now I am free to limit the uploading on that one image, to allow me to share more, all the while ensuring the first swarm stays active as long as people continue to download, and the OTHER seeders stay connected.

In your example, generally speaking, a peer which has limited upload slots and limits upload speed to < 1.0 KiBps due to peer fanning or torrent overload gets little of other peers' upload bandwidth. Snubbing and Choking work quite well in keeping those who do not share from receiving their "expected" speeds. (Note: I am only talking about the uT implementation; I used Azureus prior to 2.0, but shied away from it due to it overloading my computer of the time with 400 MB RAM usage which was huge given i had only 512. Now my production uT has over 4000 torrents and uses 180 MB of RAM with only minimal disruption to my computer)

[repeteor]

swarming must be possible with this system jewelisheaven.

http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/proxy.pdf

you did read it right ?

Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new

[funchords]

When I invented the Web, I didn't have to ask anyone's permission. --Tim Berners-Lee

"The best way to predict the future is to invent it." --Alan Kay

repeteor,

Bram Cohen (inventor of BitTorrent, to whom we owe much) and respectable others debated the value of encrypting BitTorrent and optimizations like Initial Seeding. But he wisely and thankfully didn't do anything in his client to break these ideas. Now that ISPs are overtly attacking the protocol, I can't imagine using the BitTorrent protocol without them.

I'm afraid that The2468 is right about anonymity, however -- to a very large degree, it comes at a rather high bandwidth cost up to this point. Interestingly, as ISPs drive users to overseas VPN tunnels or packet-scatter schemes, they increase the demand and decrease the available supply of bandwidth -- and as we all learned in Econ 101, this usually means that the cost goes up. Who is hurting whom?

The problem I see today is NOT that ISPs are deciphering our packets, reading in plaintext what we think is encrypted, and then selectively killing that which is undeniably bad (although they can do this at a higher processing cost to them). The current problem is that ISPs that are detecting by heuristics traffic that they do not want to carry -- whether good or bad -- and killing it. They are detecting streams by packet size, rhythm, and direction and using that information to conclude that it is BitTorrent (or eDonkey or Gnutella etc etc).

The thing I like about the proposal you cite is that it does solve a problem that we will have tomorrow: Vobile VideoDNA technology. This technology is a Fair-Use killer and will greatly abuse my current rights to clearly legal uses of copyrighted content.

One way to proceed would be to offer a large enough sum of money to attract the interest of someone (or some team) capable of implementing it. The money could come from a single donor, or from a pool contributed by many.

What do you think?

[The8472]

funchords, you (and the others) are mixing up two things here: defeating traffic shaping and anonymity. ISPs can not see what you're downloading (assuming you're exclusively using encrypted links, https tracker announces and no DHT), they can only see that you're downloading due to their heuristics, thus anonymity is not an issue when it comes to ISPs.

I suggest everyone should make up his mind what this topic is actually about.

Your reply is a contradiction: If you want keep bittorrenting legal, widespread adoption is necessary wtf ?

If you want to keep your rave from being detected by police you should not have a web site promoting your party or i am blind. You completely misunderstood my post and decided to use useless politics.

This is a false analogy as bittorrent is not "a big rave" but more like "tenthousands of small raves [swarms] scattered throughout the cities", and the more there are the more work it will take for the police.

Remember that the technology itself is legal, thus we ittorrent developers have not much to fear as long as we do not promote piracy. It's only the users who actually do illegal things have to fear something, and the herd strategy works pretty well for them... hide in the masses. The lion might catch one antelope, but that is one in thousands, and the more antelopes there are the lower is the probability for an individual antelope to be caught.

[repeteor]

I am not trying to be a smart ass, i am just worried that over the next 24 months file swapping will be completely outlawed.

Note to funchords : I would not mind paying to keep it all open and it would also kill the freeloaders, but implementing a system like this to run at speed would be a nightmare but if one was getting paid, it would take some of the pain away.

[funchords]

Check out Omemo -- I would classify it as Encrypted and Anonymous Shared File Storage. The first time that I saw it (yesterday), I thought of this thread.

[repeteor]

hi funchords

just read your post over there interesting, i know its at beta stage right now but i will give it a spin and see what it capable of.

One question it brings up : Will my IP be logged on the server going up and down ?

" The servers automatically capture some data which does not allow the identification of users such as: Time at which the web was visited, the navigator and operating system used and the domain name of the provider and/or IP address which gives them access to the network "

"The use of this web page requires the acceptance of the privacy policy on behalf of the user.

MP2P Technologies, S.A. reserves the right to modify the current privacy policy in accordance with possible future legal or judicial changes which may deem it appropriate. "

Its the last quote that concerns me !