lostxtsol Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I just wanted to report that after alot of testing I finally determined what was causing all of my freeze ups.Let me start by saying that i never had any errors, just complete lockups. this led me to believe that it had to be something hardware or kernel based. I'm still wary of Bitdefender Anti-V 2008 but can report that Agnitum Outpost Firewall Pro 2008, the exact version being 6.0.2220, was causing all of my lockups when it received the tcp/ip too many connections warning, but also at random intervals. I can say that after having read the FAQ, I am stumped as to what is an appropriate firewall, lol. Maybe a linux box between the modem and router is in order. Essentially it seems that utorrent and firewalls simply cannot coexist, or rather that the possibility for changed features and code in any firewall can easily render it, or rather enable it through another program to crash or otherwise fail. True enough it wasnt uTorrent that crashed the system, but then it could not have crashed without it either.Consequently though, and from a user standpoint, and even being as fair as possible about the work that goes into software such as this... if it ultimately comes down to firewall versus uTorrent at some point... well who wants to run around with windows unfirewalled? I mean the point here is that things can get in without you knowing, sure windows firewall will keep you safe... inbound... personnally i find the real threats tend to be outbound and have an uncanny knack for bypassing even award winning software and power users at times. anyway...i do love the program and felt that reporting on this was the right thing to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewelisheaven Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 You have an impenetrable firewall already... your router. Routers ARE hardware firewalls. AFAIK default settings for ALL routers are block-all. Therefore you're cut off from the internet unless you specify otherwise. That's funny you say Outpost is the cause, it gets rave reviews compared to ZoneAlarm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostxtsol Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Well i realize this... but what I was trying to say, and I dont think I was making clear, is that most issues come from something that has gotten in on an allowed connection, say a trojan in one of our torrents, and then it calls home. So really I only use, most people only really need a software local firewall, MOSTLY, for the things that want to get outbound connection FROM our computers... that usally piggyback to get here, otherwise i'd just be rocking windows firewall.I know... I do... I loved outpost, and before I had no issues... but this is clean install of everything from XP down. the only third party installs are utorrent, bitdefender, and outpost. and now that it is gone it works. before i couldnt even do anything. if i opened utorrent it locked the computer up in moments, with nly that tcpip warning in the events viewer as a clue, I took it off and right now it's been running for an hour while i'm typing this and still running bitdefender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewelisheaven Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I have no problem blocking outgoing communication but if you as a computer user and master of your computer (or so microsoft lets you believe when you BUY their software) let programs get that far.. that's your problem IMNSHO.There's nothing wrong with windows firewall, from my experience the little I have used it. Have you tried looking through a Process Explorer DLL log or HiJackThis to see if you see (or don't see) something you installed or should not be there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firon Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 an infected system cannot be trusted.Still, I hadn't heard of Outpost causing lockups. was it the latest version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostxtsol Posted January 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Did i do something, or say somthing to you? anyway, I like concise management in the form of a software firewall, and so it is of importance to me, it's my preference. if you dont find that to be suitable i'm always open to learn more effective means of protecting my system.Secondly on that system I have only winxp sp2, Bitdefender, chipset and video drivers, and utorrent.Yes I double checked with hijackthis and sysinternals. In addition, you have to understand.. i got so tired of the issue that I made sure! I used a second clean brand new install to download and scan the files, bitdefender, utorrent, and the drivers as i downloaded them from their repective brand websites, and then scanned them again once I brought them on to the machine in question, all before I had hooked that machine to any network. Not only did I still have the issue on the new install, but on both counts taking off Outpost worked. In this case I can only tell you that the version I had was as I stated above 6.0.2220, and that i'm still not having any issues, for this i am very sorry because it seems to deeply offend or something. I dont understand what is so hard to believe... sometimes things dont work together... oh well. i was just trying to do my part and mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewelisheaven Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 OH no! Don't be sorry I was incredulous because Firon actually recommends Outpost.. And despises ZoneAlarm and McAfee and Norton and... (continue the list). It is possible settings exist, but since all I know about is the Software Firewall Rules Thread since I have no need to run anything but the Windows Firewall I can't directly advise. This forum is about input and thanks for that. I'm sure other users who have outpost and find themselves on the same version you had will be happy to end their search with this thread which describes your problems with it to see they aren't alone. :/ If you'd like to see if something else pre-installed is a known conflict feel free to post your log (HiJackThis first). Process Explorer DLL lists are useful only when uT is actually locking up, which as you said you resolved on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostxtsol Posted January 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 I canput the hijack up, it'll be a bit different since it started working I started installing my other apps, but no biggy... still no issues.yeah sorry, I get easily to defend because too many forums I try to post my findings etc, and you get so many of these dejected naysayers overtime you sort of become a cynical person about it, so I was probably quick to be upset by it.I hate few things more than zonealarm. I will get on getting that report here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firon Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 I usually recommended Outpost and Comodo because they were the only firewalls that were -not- causing problems. But it seems that Outpost may have succumbed to the shitty firewall law... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostxtsol Posted January 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 it did what it was supposed to fine. I had no other issues at all except with this one program. Not like using Zonealarm where all manner of life hit the fan. It really is crap, Outpost did great but it just happens to be having an issue with utorrent. But hey, maybe it's only that one version. i looked it up and apparently the most current version is actually 6.0.2225.232.465.287 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajones81 Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 Did you miss out any part of that version no.? BTW, just a thought. Could it be something to do with Bitdefender? What if you'd uninstalled Bitdefender and kept Outpost? Maybe it wasn't so much Outpost's fault as the fact that those two couldn't co-exist peacefully? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostxtsol Posted January 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Actually I though about reinstalling it. Which i could do.but that could be true.but then is utorrent all that wholly better than every other bittorrent program that i want to change one or possibly two other programs that I still have paid time left with, just for it. See I got BD in may of 07 but I've used outpost long before that, and i only switched to utorrent from azureus in december, and while I did switch for a reason it did not cause system hangs... or HEY... hangs that may be because of two other programs in relation to a third... still the common denominator everytime, in my paticular situation, is utorrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewelisheaven Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 uTorrent doesn't crash on it's own. I can attest (as can others I bet) to this. Sure uT may freeze, but it's due to incompatibility with these other programs. If you are motivated enough you may even be able to get the other program's programmers or support staff to give you directions to "debug" where their program is crashing / freezing / choking.. causing uT to "go down with the ship" as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostxtsol Posted January 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I know that, because uTorrent doesnt operate at a level that it would be able to crash or freeze up windows, which is why I never suspected it in the first place. But thats irrelevant to me, because ultimately in my mind it did cause the crash through incompatibility...better yet i''ll put it this way.irregardless whether the crash was actually cause by the uTorrent process itself, It was the addition of uTorrent which was incompatible with a program already running that caused the crash, so the end result was the same. Add the program, error happens.I can understand. uTorrent is a fine program. I have no bad will or issues. But I have paid programs it doesnt play well with. i prefer to run a software firewall, very few of which are compatible. Perhaps it just isnt right for me. i know I used Azureus without issues with said programs, BUT I find it to be very buggy and a resource hog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewelisheaven Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Awesome, since you are invested in both of your choices of programs, asking the relevant developers "what can I do to track down your program crashing" in both a polite and even tone should affect results. Not a programmer I have met has said "my program doesn't crash" and as such are aware and probably VERY willing to get you fixed. As you see in Drew42's post he was quite willing and able to help identify the specific problem encountered after he followed other steps given by the dedicated staff and helpers. Perhaps linking the developer or support personnel you talk to your thread will help them even give a forum for them to put their own ideas down for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostxtsol Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Wow, ok. i will email them, but my experience with alot of corporate support on issues like these over the days is never like that. remotely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firon Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Can you do me a favor? Can you run ut again with Outpost (assuming the newest Outpost still causes the problem) and get it to freeze?When it does so, please run this (you can do it from start -> run).ntsd.exe -p 4100 -e 4100 -c ".dump /mf c:\jit.dmp;q"where 4100 is the PID of utorrent (enable PID column in task manager), and c:\jit.dmp is the resulting dump file. This will force a crash dump, and then maybe we can find out a way to hack around the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostxtsol Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 you mean run it before right, cause it freezes the whole computer. Thats why i figured it had to be either BD or Outpost cause theres no way Ut interacts with the system at a level that could freeze the entire machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firon Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Oh, the ENTIRE computer freezes? I thought it was just µTorrent freezing... Guess I read that poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostxtsol Posted January 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 okay i downloaded the newest version of outpost and updated it, plus i even reinstalled windows with all that again man. i even added a resident shield for spyware. same outcome man.it locked up on me.... is there any other way to achieve some info out of this? a dump or something? I get no errors still in the events viewer.ogfile of Trend Micro HijackThis v2.0.2Scan saved at 1:06:14 AM, on 1/23/2008Platform: Windows XP SP2 (WinNT 5.01.2600)MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP2 (6.00.2900.2180)Boot mode: NormalRunning processes:C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exeC:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exeC:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXEC:\WINDOWS\system32\RUNDLL32.EXEC:\Program Files\BitDefender\BitDefender 2008\bdagent.exeC:\Program Files\Logitech\SetPoint\SetPoint.exeC:\Program Files\Common Files\Logishrd\KHAL2\KHALMNPR.EXEC:\Program Files\Grisoft\AVG Anti-Spyware 7.5\guard.exeC:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exeC:\Program Files\Common Files\BitDefender\BitDefender Communicator\xcommsvr.exeC:\Program Files\Common Files\BitDefender\BitDefender Update Service\livesrv.exeC:\Program Files\BitDefender\BitDefender 2008\vsserv.exeC:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exeC:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exeC:\PROGRA~1\MOZILL~2\FIREFOX.EXEC:\Program Files\Trend Micro\HijackThis\HijackThis.exeO3 - Toolbar: BitDefender Toolbar - {381FFDE8-2394-4f90-B10D-FC6124A40F8C} - C:\Program Files\BitDefender\BitDefender 2008\IEToolbar.dllO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvCplDaemon] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\WINDOWS\system32\NvCpl.dll,NvStartupO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [nwiz] nwiz.exe /installO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvMediaCenter] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\WINDOWS\system32\NvMcTray.dll,NvTaskbarInitO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [OutpostMonitor] C:\PROGRA~1\Agnitum\OUTPOS~1\op_mon.exe /tray /noserviceO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [OutpostFeedBack] "C:\Program Files\Agnitum\Outpost Firewall Pro\feedback.exe" /dump:os_startupO4 - HKLM\..\Run: [bitDefender Antiphishing Helper] "C:\Program Files\BitDefender\BitDefender 2008\IEShow.exe"O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [bDAgent] "C:\Program Files\BitDefender\BitDefender 2008\bdagent.exe"O4 - Global Startup: Logitech SetPoint.lnk = C:\Program Files\Logitech\SetPoint\SetPoint.exeO8 - Extra context menu item: E&xport to Microsoft Excel - res://C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\OFFICE11\EXCEL.EXE/3000O9 - Extra button: Outpost Firewall Pro Quick Tune - {44627E97-789B-40d4-B5C2-58BD171129A1} - C:\Program Files\Agnitum\Outpost Firewall Pro\ie_bar.dllO9 - Extra button: Research - {92780B25-18CC-41C8-B9BE-3C9C571A8263} - C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\OFFICE11\REFIEBAR.DLLO9 - Extra button: Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exeO9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Windows Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exeO17 - HKLM\System\CCS\Services\Tcpip\..\{4D06B5A3-93E7-4FCB-8E29-43B91B2D066C}: NameServer = 208.68.50.70,208.68.50.71O20 - AppInit_DLLs: c:\progra~1\agnitum\outpos~1\wl_hook.dllO23 - Service: Agnitum Client Security Service (acssrv) - Agnitum Ltd. - C:\PROGRA~1\Agnitum\OUTPOS~1\acs.exeO23 - Service: AVG Anti-Spyware Guard - GRISOFT s.r.o. - C:\Program Files\Grisoft\AVG Anti-Spyware 7.5\guard.exeO23 - Service: Logitech Bluetooth Service (LBTServ) - Logitech, Inc. - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Logishrd\Bluetooth\LBTServ.exeO23 - Service: BitDefender Desktop Update Service (LIVESRV) - BitDefender S.R.L. - C:\Program Files\Common Files\BitDefender\BitDefender Update Service\livesrv.exeO23 - Service: NVIDIA Display Driver Service (NVSvc) - NVIDIA Corporation - C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exeO23 - Service: BitDefender Virus Shield (VSSERV) - BitDefender S.R.L. - C:\Program Files\BitDefender\BitDefender 2008\vsserv.exeO23 - Service: BitDefender Communicator (XCOMM) - BitDefender - C:\Program Files\Common Files\BitDefender\BitDefender Communicator\xcommsvr.exe--End of file - 3746 bytesand oh yeahi didnt have office or the spyware, or the logitech last time. i also didnt install audio yet which i did have last time but nevertheless, still happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewelisheaven Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Adding more programs doesn't simplfy the situation, it compounds it. Additionally, right now could you get a process explorer DLL log of utorrent.exe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostxtsol Posted January 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 i realize this but i promise you it wouldnt matter. and i'm sorta tired of redoing my computer over the whole ordealsure i can get that... well i hope... does it matter if it freezes? or should i forego the outpost? cause if i simply turn it off, it doesnt happen then either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewelisheaven Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 I understand the effect long-standing problems have, especially after you feel you've banged your head against the same wall for what seems like EVER! :/ I'm just sad one of the previously recommended firewalls is unworking If you don't mind, could you post the exact version you're using before you uninstall it for now? It's possible someone else might know or figure out a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostxtsol Posted January 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 this version of outpost is 6.0.2225.232.0465utorrent version 1.7.6 build 7859you never answered me about process explorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewelisheaven Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 The advantage of a process explorer logfile (when highlighting uTorrent) is that it directly shows injected DLLs. Should an external program crash, it is possible that if it's injected it will take uT with it. You can also monitor handles, if you notice your computer slowing down... in that case, prior to crashing perhaps saving a handle list (Ctrl-H, instead of Ctrl-D) would help, or a picture of one of the handles repeated multiple times... /Device/TCP handles are irrelevant as they relate to your connections to peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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