1.7.6 Crashes lots

[Ozwonder]

Hi,

I have been using µTorrent for quite some time now and have been very happy with the program. I frequently refer it to others, especially because it is so well implemented as a "light weight" application that doesn't clog my system and memory the way Shareaza used to do.

Unfortunately, ever since downloading the latest version, 1.7.6 (build 7859) to my WinXP machine the program crashes every few hours.

I have reviewed the post by Firon Administrator 2007-09-30 00:30:11 and can confirm that, to the best of my knowledge, none of the causes mentioned in that post are relevant to my circumstance. I ran full, deep scans with three different anti-malware tools before writing this post and the other products mentioned are not on my system.

I usually opt to send the dump when restarting the app (good feature).

I guess one of the reasons this worries me is that I did not have significant crash issues previously yet, the release notes for the latest version imply others have been experiencing crash problems and this latest version is supposed to fix that - in my case, it has done the exact reverse.

Any advice appreciated.

Oz

[jewelisheaven]

Thanks for testing but you gave no indication of your system setup to help others go from there. Why specifically don't you think your case is applicable? Are you running any security software? Can you provide a DLL list from Process Explorer for utorrent.exe (start procexp.exe, Ctrl-L, Ctrl-D, click utorrent.exe, Ctrl-A, copy-paste below/above

The fact it crashes regularly means there is a program incompatibility, and it needs to be identified and patched for it to coexist with uT.

[Ozwonder]

Jewel,

My apologies but, I am not a computer expert and besides, I thought the whole point of submitting the dumps was that they contain the requisite information. I did tell you my system setup, it's a Windows XP (fully patched by Microsoft Update) installation.

The new version of µTorrent was the only new software installed so whatever the incompatability it would appear that it has been introduced by µTorrent and not any other program (previously coexisting happily with µTorrent).

Process Explorer does not appear to be a standard program on a Windows XP installation. So, yes, the incompatability needs to be found and µTorrent patched to correct the error - I get that. Just not sure what you expect a user to do about it when the developers are the experts?!?

I guess I can make the problem go away by removing µTorrent but, that is hardly my preferred option. So, any suggestions of a better solution much appreciated.

Oz

[jewelisheaven]

This forum is generally for users helping users. Developers contribute where they see fit, which right now is the in-development thread for 1.8 line coming out next.

I'm asking for you to help me help you. I think I gave you enough information to do what I asked. If i'm mistaken please correct me

[Ultima]

A process list provides a bit more context, which might (or might not) help. It doesn't hurt to provide a process list, and the developers do ask for process lists themselves in many cases anyhow. It can help expedite the troubleshooting process (which you did come here for).

[Ozwonder]

Jewel, Ultima,

Thank you both for your input. Please forgive me if I have offended in any way, that was not my intent. I found this forum from the help menu in µTorrent and was not aware that it is not actually µTorrent supported (or whatever the correct terminology should be).

Any way, a little Googling and I found what I hope is the correct Process Explorer program, although I don't really understand what it does/shows. Following Jewel's instructions I found the Ctrl A saved a text file which is copied below. Hope this is what was expected and you are able to provide some further assistance.

Thank you for your patience.

Oz

_____________________________________________________________________

Process PID CPU CPU Time Virtual Size I/O History CPU History Description Version Window Title Window Status DEP Status Start Time

System Idle Process 0 29.31 1:07:14.972 0 K <n/a> n/a

Interrupts n/a 0:01:18.522 0 K Hardware Interrupts <n/a> n/a

DPCs n/a 0:01:11.092 0 K Deferred Procedure Calls <n/a> n/a

System 4 10.34 0:04:40.273 1,876 K On n/a

smss.exe 848 0:00:00.590 3,800 K Windows NT Session Manager 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:51:36 25/1/08

csrss.exe 952 0:00:13.449 27,436 K Client Server Runtime Process 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:51:40 25/1/08

winlogon.exe 1124 0:00:07.741 63,260 K Windows NT Logon Application 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:51:44 25/1/08

services.exe 1168 1.72 0:00:13.349 22,224 K Services and Controller app 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:51:48 25/1/08

svchost.exe 1336 0:00:02.433 65,832 K Generic Host Process for Win32 Services 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:51:54 25/1/08

hpgs2wnf.exe 2444 0:00:00.070 38,332 K hpgs2wnf Module 2.06.0000.0161 On 17:52:44 25/1/08

rapimgr.exe 2424 0:00:00.220 47,448 K ActiveSync RAPI Manager 4.05.5096.0000 On 17:52:58 25/1/08

OUTLOOK.EXE 2100 0:01:16.730 361,680 K Microsoft Office Outlook 11.00.8169.0000 On 17:54:31 25/1/08

wisptis.exe 2580 0:00:01.011 29,524 K Microsoft Tablet PC Component 1.07.2600.2180 On 18:27:25 25/1/08

svchost.exe 1424 0:00:01.201 40,276 K Generic Host Process for Win32 Services 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:51:57 25/1/08

svchost.exe 1736 0:00:55.409 148,568 K Generic Host Process for Win32 Services 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:51:57 25/1/08

svchost.exe 1804 1.72 0:00:02.062 31,368 K Generic Host Process for Win32 Services 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:51:58 25/1/08

svchost.exe 248 0:00:06.158 68,556 K Generic Host Process for Win32 Services 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:51:58 25/1/08

spoolsv.exe 616 0:00:04.586 49,224 K Spooler SubSystem App 5.01.2600.2696 On 17:52:03 25/1/08

avgamsvr.exe 1352 0:00:01.171 47,868 K AVG Alert Manager 7.05.0000.0496 On 17:52:13 25/1/08

avgupsvc.exe 1500 0:00:00.020 21,504 K AVG Update Service 7.05.0000.0420 On 17:52:14 25/1/08

BTNtService.exe 1520 0:00:00.230 29,548 K On 17:52:14 25/1/08

svchost.exe 1536 0:00:00.050 31,928 K Generic Host Process for Win32 Services 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:52:14 25/1/08

cisvc.exe 1560 0:01:04.833 69,296 K Content Index service 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:52:14 25/1/08

cidaemon.exe 2316 0:05:39.067 123,388 K Indexing Service filter daemon 5.01.2600.0000 On 17:59:24 25/1/08

cidaemon.exe 2592 0:00:00.120 30,728 K Indexing Service filter daemon 5.01.2600.0000 On 17:59:34 25/1/08

MDM.EXE 1728 0:00:00.260 36,032 K Machine Debug Manager 7.00.9466.0000 On 17:52:15 25/1/08

nvsvc32.exe 1824 0:00:00.380 38,336 K NVIDIA Driver Helper Service, Version 93.71 6.14.0010.9371 Off 17:52:15 25/1/08

svchost.exe 1880 0:00:00.360 40,152 K Generic Host Process for Win32 Services 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:52:15 25/1/08

alg.exe 876 0:00:00.080 33,212 K Application Layer Gateway Service 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:52:33 25/1/08

svchost.exe 3420 0:00:00.050 37,984 K Generic Host Process for Win32 Services 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:52:53 25/1/08

wmpnetwk.exe 512 0:00:00.660 67,400 K Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service 11.00.5721.5145 On 17:52:56 25/1/08

lsass.exe 1180 0:00:05.688 44,060 K LSA Shell (Export Version) 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:51:48 25/1/08

explorer.exe 164 1.72 0:02:05.850 121,616 K Windows Explorer 6.00.2900.3156 Program Manager Running On 17:52:19 25/1/08

avgcc.exe 460 0:00:03.755 53,796 K AVG Control Center 7.05.0000.0504 On 17:52:36 25/1/08

iTouch.exe 796 0:00:00.450 50,008 K iTouch Application 2.22.0289.0000 On 17:52:39 25/1/08

jusched.exe 836 0:00:00.050 29,976 K Java Platform SE binary 6.00.0030.0005 On 17:52:39 25/1/08

PRISMSVR.exe 2260 0:00:18.777 49,080 K PRISM Profiles Server Module 1.01.0024.0026 On 17:52:42 25/1/08

hpgs2wnd.exe 2280 0:00:00.080 38,568 K hpgs2wnd 2.03.0000.0161 On 17:52:42 25/1/08

SOUNDMAN.EXE 2344 0:00:00.120 39,104 K Realtek Sound Manager 5.01.0000.0010 On 17:52:42 25/1/08

rundll32.exe 3080 0:00:00.130 32,096 K Run a DLL as an App 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:52:47 25/1/08

rundll32.exe 3088 0:00:00.090 35,148 K Run a DLL as an App 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:52:47 25/1/08

HpqSRmon.exe 3176 0:00:00.200 35,392 K HpqSRmon 10.00.0000.0202 On 17:52:50 25/1/08

CardScanAgent.exe 3472 0:00:04.286 33,248 K Scanning Agent 8.00.0003.0205 On 17:52:54 25/1/08

Skype.exe 3484 1.72 0:00:49.080 148,628 K Skype. Take a deep breath 3.05.0000.0239 On 17:52:54 25/1/08

skypePM.exe 792 0:00:03.945 80,248 K Skype Extras Manager 1.05.0000.0003 On 17:53:36 25/1/08

wcescomm.exe 3536 5.17 0:13:38.196 80,052 K ActiveSync Connection Manager 4.05.5096.0000 On 17:52:54 25/1/08

WCESMgr.exe 3552 0:00:18.296 169,820 K ActiveSync Application 4.05.5096.0000 On 17:53:12 25/1/08

wmpnscfg.exe 3576 0:00:00.030 28,136 K Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service Configuration Application 11.00.5721.5145 On 17:52:54 25/1/08

ctfmon.exe 3612 0:00:01.902 38,996 K CTF Loader 5.01.2600.2180 On 17:52:54 25/1/08

GoogleToolbarNotifier.exe 3692 0:00:00.370 50,496 K GoogleToolbarNotifier 2.00.0301.1654 On 17:52:55 25/1/08

acrotray.exe 3456 0:00:00.120 32,288 K AcroTray 6.00.0001.0081 On 17:52:59 25/1/08

BlueSoleil.exe 3912 0:00:02.753 111,680 K Bluetooth Application 2.03.0000.0000 On 17:53:02 25/1/08

boincmgr.exe 4040 0:01:08.147 47,520 K BOINC Manager for Windows 5.10.0030.0000 On 17:53:04 25/1/08

boinc.exe 824 0:00:07.040 22,540 K BOINC client 5.10.0030.0000 On 17:53:08 25/1/08

SMCWGUTI.exe 1396 0:00:29.141 44,484 K WLAN configuration utility 2.00.0000.0004 On 17:53:06 25/1/08

procexp.exe 2788 13.79 0:00:23.774 232,836 K Sysinternals Process Explorer 10.20.0000.0000 Process Explorer - Sysinternals: www.sysinternals.com [PHOEBE\Jordan] Running On 20:52:53 25/1/08

uTorrent.exe 3800 34.48 0:00:03.885 42,720 K On 20:53:44 25/1/08

EM_EXEC.EXE 2620 0:00:00.280 39,792 K Logitech Events Handler Application 9.79.0025.0001 On 17:52:46 25/1/08

iexplore.exe 2968 0:00:46.947 291,024 K Internet Explorer 7.00.6000.16574 forum.utorrent.com / 1.7.6 Crashes lots - Windows Internet Explorer Running On 20:49:04 25/1/08

Process: uTorrent.exe Pid: 3800

Name Description Company Name Version Time Path

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

<Pagefile Backed> <Pagefile Backed>

activeds.dll ADs Router Layer DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\activeds.dll

adsldpc.dll ADs LDAP Provider C DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\adsldpc.dll

advapi32.dll Advanced Windows 32 Base API Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\advapi32.dll

atl.dll ATL Module for Windows XP (Unicode) Microsoft Corporation 3.05.2284.0000 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\atl.dll

clbcatq.dll Microsoft Corporation 2001.12.4414.0308 26/7/05 15:39 C:\WINDOWS\system32\clbcatq.dll

comctl32.dll User Experience Controls Library Microsoft Corporation 6.00.2900.2982 26/8/06 2:45 C:\WINDOWS\WinSxS\X86_Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.2600.2982_x-ww_ac3f9c03\comctl32.dll

comdlg32.dll Common Dialogs DLL Microsoft Corporation 6.00.2900.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\comdlg32.dll

comres.dll Microsoft Corporation 2001.12.4414.0258 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\comres.dll

ctype.nls 18/8/01 13:00 C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctype.nls

dnsapi.dll DNS Client API DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2938 27/6/06 4:37 C:\WINDOWS\system32\dnsapi.dll

gdi32.dll GDI Client DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.3159 20/6/07 0:31 C:\WINDOWS\system32\gdi32.dll

hnetcfg.dll Home Networking Configuration Manager Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\hnetcfg.dll

imm32.dll Windows XP IMM32 API Client DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\imm32.dll

iphlpapi.dll IP Helper API Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2912 19/5/06 23:59 C:\WINDOWS\system32\iphlpapi.dll

itchhk.dll iTouch Hook Library Logitech Inc. 1.00.0000.0000 18/3/04 10:26 C:\Program Files\Logitech\iTouch\itchhk.dll

kernel32.dll Windows NT BASE API Client DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.3119 17/4/07 2:52 C:\WINDOWS\system32\kernel32.dll

LGMSGHK.DLL Logitech Message Hook Library Logitech Inc. 1.01.0000.0000 18/3/04 10:26 C:\Program Files\Common Files\Logitech\Scrolling\LGMSGHK.DLL

LgWndHk.dll Logitech Call Window Hook Library Logitech Inc. 9.79.0025.0001 8/1/04 10:50 C:\Program Files\Logitech\MouseWare\system\LgWndHk.dll

locale.nls 17/7/04 12:48 C:\WINDOWS\system32\locale.nls

lpk.dll Language Pack Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\lpk.dll

mprapi.dll Windows NT MP Router Administration DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\mprapi.dll

msctf.dll MSCTF Server DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\msctf.dll

msctfime.ime Microsoft Text Frame Work Service IME Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\msctfime.ime

msvcrt.dll Windows NT CRT DLL Microsoft Corporation 7.00.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\msvcrt.dll

mswsock.dll Microsoft Windows Sockets 2.0 Service Provider Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\mswsock.dll

netapi32.dll Net Win32 API DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2976 17/8/06 23:28 C:\WINDOWS\system32\netapi32.dll

ntdll.dll NT Layer DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntdll.dll

ole32.dll Microsoft OLE for Windows Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2726 26/7/05 15:39 C:\WINDOWS\system32\ole32.dll

oleaut32.dll Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.3139 17/5/07 22:28 C:\WINDOWS\system32\oleaut32.dll

pnrpnsp.dll PNRP Name Space Provider Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.3013 12/10/06 3:24 C:\WINDOWS\system32\pnrpnsp.dll

rasadhlp.dll Remote Access AutoDial Helper Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2938 27/6/06 4:37 C:\WINDOWS\system32\rasadhlp.dll

rpcrt4.dll Remote Procedure Call Runtime Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.3173 10/7/07 0:16 C:\WINDOWS\system32\rpcrt4.dll

rtutils.dll Routing Utilities Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\rtutils.dll

samlib.dll SAM Library DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\samlib.dll

setupapi.dll Windows Setup API Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\setupapi.dll

shell32.dll Windows Shell Common Dll Microsoft Corporation 6.00.2900.3241 26/10/07 14:34 C:\WINDOWS\system32\shell32.dll

shlwapi.dll Shell Light-weight Utility Library Microsoft Corporation 6.00.2900.2995 23/9/06 14:12 C:\WINDOWS\system32\shlwapi.dll

sortkey.nls 18/8/01 13:00 C:\WINDOWS\system32\sortkey.nls

sorttbls.nls 17/7/04 12:48 C:\WINDOWS\system32\sorttbls.nls

unicode.nls 18/8/01 13:00 C:\WINDOWS\system32\unicode.nls

user32.dll Windows XP USER API Client DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.3099 9/3/07 2:36 C:\WINDOWS\system32\user32.dll

usp10.dll Uniscribe Unicode script processor Microsoft Corporation 1.420.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\usp10.dll

uTorrent.exe 17/1/08 19:35 C:\Program Files\uTorrent\uTorrent.exe

uxtheme.dll Microsoft UxTheme Library Microsoft Corporation 6.00.2900.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\uxtheme.dll

version.dll Version Checking and File Installation Libraries Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\version.dll

winrnr.dll LDAP RnR Provider DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\winrnr.dll

wldap32.dll Win32 LDAP API DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\wldap32.dll

ws2_32.dll Windows Socket 2.0 32-Bit DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\ws2_32.dll

ws2help.dll Windows Socket 2.0 Helper for Windows NT Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\ws2help.dll

wshtcpip.dll Windows Sockets Helper DLL Microsoft Corporation 5.01.2600.2180 4/8/04 1:56 C:\WINDOWS\system32\wshtcpip.dll

[jewelisheaven]

Gratzi for the logfile No offense (at least on my end) taken. It IS the official support place for uTorrent, hence the linkage in the taskbar / menu / icon.. but it's not the ONLY place where official responses can be seen. It just so happens most of the help on the forum is NOT official support due to the dedicated staff' limited time in the day and busy schedules. If you check out the Announcements forum you see the currently in-development 1.8 line is progressing quite nicely.

Regarding your log, hmm [ul][li]itchhk.dll iTouch Hook Library Logitech Inc. 1.00.0000.0000 18/3/04 10:26 C:\Program Files\Logitech\iTouch\itchhk.dll[/li][li]LGMSGHK.DLL Logitech Message Hook Library Logitech Inc. 1.01.0000.0000 18/3/04 10:26 C:\Program Files\Common Files\Logitech\Scrolling\LGMSGHK.DLL[/li][li]LgWndHk.dll Logitech Call Window Hook Library Logitech Inc. 9.79.0025.0001 8/1/04 10:50 C:\Program Files\Logitech\MouseWare\system\LgWndHk.dll[/li][/ul] which are all from logitech suite you run. Perhaps there is a way to make "exceptions" for the utorrent.exe?

Also I don't recognize hpgs2wnf.exe rapimgr.exe BTNtService.exe cisvc.exe cidaemon.exe cidaemon.exe iTouch.exe hpgs2wnd.exe but that doesn't mean they're not legit... is your computer a HP? I marked those indexing services, as you may want to add an exception for your download directory so you don't get "access denied" errors As for the iTouch.. is that for that iDop thing with a touch-screen? Other than that, you have a tight ship

[Ozwonder]

Jewel,

Thanks for the prompt response but, afraid not sure that I am any better informed about what I can do, e.g. how can I "make exceptions"?

The Logitech Software is related to the cordless keyboard and mouse, including the iTouch.exe that you didn't recognise - at least I assume that's the case.

No, it's a generic computer, not a brand name system. I have found the brand name systems (Dell, HP, etc.) have all sorts of software pre-installed that it is either difficult to remove, or seems to make the machine unusable when removed. If you just leave it there then sooner rather than later the machines seem to become unstable in some way. That has been my experience but, I emphasise I am no techie when it comes to the inner workings of a PC system.

I know/think the BTNxxx things are related to the Bluetooth access (USB Bluetooth Wireless Interface). Don't have a touch screen but, do synch an HP H4155 PDA that has a touch screen - if that's relevant.

I don't expect you to solve all my problems and naivete through this forum but, not sure what I should do, or what to make of your references to "exceptions", "access denied errors" and "download directory". Reassuring to hear I have a "tight ship" as I do my best with my limited expertise.

Whatever direction/assistance you feel comfortable to offer will be most appreciated and thank you again for all the time and patience you have already provided.

Oz

PS: How do you add those smilies? See the setting that says they're on but, no indication of where to find them.

[jewelisheaven]

Here's my advice then. If that exception bollocks didn't make any sense and if searching in the manuals / help stuff associated didn't pop-out any setings to do so: Try uninstalling that suite for now. It is hooking into uT, and if for whatever reason it crashes it appears to be crashing uT. Why a keyboard handler would crash I have no idea, lol.

As for smilies here are some samples

  is wink,  is smile,  is big teeth smile, and uhm  is unhappy

Edit: stupid pos noparse, changed to code

[Ozwonder]

Jewel,

Thanks for that. I do appreciate your assistance but, not sure I can follow the advice because if I uninstall the keyboard software then what do I do for a keyboard!?!?

Understand that the interaction doesn't make sense and my only guess is that it might an age thing as my keyboard is over 5 years old and is not even listed on the Logitech support site except as an unspecified member of the legacy support - I am guessing the software is, therefor, old and so, perhaps, not as compliant with current O/S and stuff as it should be.

Thanks for the hints on the smilies too

Cheers,

Oz

[jewelisheaven]

Err keyboard handling is done through windows... extra keyboard software exposes things like those hotkeys up top, or additional peripherals (my brother got some logitech with an LCD on it, lol). If the keyboard doesn't work without the software, indeed it is old. If you're worried about uninstalling the software I understand the hesistance,but unless you don't have a means to re-install it that's the best way I can think to proceed. Actually that software came with a manual or a support site right? You should check in it to see if you can make "exceptions" for the hooking functions. A developer pointed out some problems with some freeware?? mouse click/point app called mouseimp, which crashes when used with uT... which is the only reason I'm asking in the first place. If indeed the software is buggy I'm almost positive that Logitech would want to fix it, as all coders I have known want to make their software work the best it can. I also am aware those files are from '04 and probably either aren't supported anymore, or are superceded by a "pay" version :/ There is no easy alternative I can think of besides removing the hooking software to see if uT ceases crashing. I can try to guide you through removing the hooks IN utorrent.exe if you like instead? But be advised it will involve alot of clicking and saying OK. Your choice whichever you choose, if you have more questions before you procede feel free to list them below

[Ozwonder]

Okay. Have uninstalled the software and the keyboard still works. Will let µTorrent run over night and if it is still running in the morning then, fingers-crossed, the problem is solved and I can live without the 3 special function keys (I know newer keyboards like your brothers have a lot more extra functionality but, not my otherwise reliable old fella and it does have great key action which I appreciate as I do a lot of typing).

I think getting you to take me through the apparently painstaking process of removing hooks can be an imposition left for the desparate act of last resort. Thanks again for all your help

[jewelisheaven]

You may also want to check out alternate keyboard handlers... with my shell blackbox (http://www.bb4win.org) I have plugins I use to intercept all keyboard input. With the default windows shortcuts I can use Win+Break,M,N,E,F,and D... with my extra handler I have setup Alt-Win-Left arrow to page left one workspace, the same for Right arrow... it even understand my volume up and volume down media keys on my 3 year old logitech.. it's one of those kb+mouse combos with wireless mouse... I don't use the mouse, as I have a trackball. I hear you about the key action. Man some old keyboards you wonder how you dealt with the clickity-click, and how TEACHERS in schools handled it for typing class, LOL. I wish you luck Write back with results

[Ozwonder]

Well, with the keyboard software (iTouch) removed and µTorrent running the system lasted an hour or so . Now I have uninstalled the mouse software (MouseWare) and will see if that eliminates the problem. Shame though, as the mouse software gives a fairly reliable reading on battery life - a great convenience.

Followed the link to BlackBox but, frankly, it is totally unclear what the site offers (apart from huge number of Google Ads) and I suspect that way lie monsters for a non-techie .

Will let you know how things go with no Logitech software at all.

[jewelisheaven]

Good deal. I'm all for testing and re-testing, but after re-looking at those injected DLLs... removal of all the logitech software should the crashing :/ unfortunately it would require either 1) telling logitech that the software .... from 04 is incompatible with µTorrent (an 05-08 application) 2) more debugging than i think you'd be able to give comfortably. At the very least if indeed the removal solves the crashing... a friendly email to their support listing those DLLs or a link to this post as a way to let them know the troubleshooting may indeed get someone motivated to help work through this I agree battery indicators are among the MOST important utilities.. I just finished watching "Life After People" on the History Channel.. scary stuff, lol.

[Ozwonder]

Just thought I'd provide a little follow-up. Did post on the Logitech forum with a link to this thread but, never received/saw any response. Not really sure they care as much about legacy gear, or the bit-torrent community for that matter .

With all the logitech software uninstalled things seemed to be better. Took a bit of fiddling to get the mouse to install as a generic PS/2 device that recognised the wheel.

Then I got a system hang problem but, it only seemed to happen when µTorrent was running and the screensaver was active, as in overnight. So I reluctantly uninstalled BOINC, the screensaver I was using to run Seti@Home.

That seems to have eliminated all problems and then I noticed today that µTorrent downloaded/updated a new version of itself where the release note was that this version was to fix a persistent crash problem with µTorrent.

Guess, I will reinstall BOINC and see what happens. Been running Seti@Home for over ten years I think and kind of like contributing to such projects.

Thanks again for all your help.

[jewelisheaven]

Man Seti@Home those were the days. Thanks for the update It doesn't sound like you'll have any more problems... that Logitech software isn't the first mouse software to have problems. Searching for MouseImp (another input program) will say that's a problem program... And the devs guessed it by name, which is pretty amazing given the limited (but odd behaviour) experienced crashes while doing simple things like clicking on menus. If alot of the problem programs had "exception lists" to exclude programs it should apply to things would be better IMNSHO. Why do you think skinning programs allow exceptions so rigorously? heh did I mention : / is another smilie. Thanks for your patience in your problem solving and here's to no more problems :cheer: