UI display

[ady4um]

This *could* be a "feature request", but I'm not actually requesting some new feature. I just want to point out some things I noticed about the ut user interface, and maybe this could be useful to the devs and eventually to the users. IMHO, the following points could make the UI more coherent / consistent as a whole. That's why I'm posting them in 1 single thread, instead of opening each item separately. Oh, and I'm NOT talking about WebUI; I'm talking about the utorrent User Interface, 1.7.7 stable version. In each of the following points, I just present it. I leave the arguments for future/further discussion, if anyone is interested. And of course I would like to hear everyones' opinions, specially from mods and devs.

1_ The column "ETA" in the torrent's list is referring to time. The column "Remaining" is referring to bytes. But in the "General" Pane, under "Transfer", the info called Remaining matches the ETA. Also, the help file explains the Remaining info in the General Pane as ETA. IMO, in the General Pane the word Remaining should be change to ETA. The help file should be changed accordingly.

2_ As the ETA changes from the time-to-finish-downloading, to the time-to-get-to-the-seeding-goal, I would suggest the column "Remaining" in the torrent's list to change also, accordingly. The help file should reflect this change to avoid questions about this.

3_ Since my first suggestion was to change, in the general pane, the word Remaining to the word ETA, I would suggest adding the appropriate "Remaining" info in the same "Transfer" section, according to the info in the "Remaining" column in the torrent's list. In this case, this info could/should also be changed according to suggestion number 2_, and changing the help file is very important if this is implemented.

4_ In the Transfer section of the General Pane, the dl and ul speeds both have its avg. This info is displayed in xx.x kB/s (at least for me). IMHO the AVeraGe info should be displayed always at least with 3 digits to the right of the decimal point, like x.xxx kB/s, or xx.xxx kB/s, or xxx.xxx kB/s (or even xxx.xxx MB/s, if this happens in any case). As I said before, I think I have valid reasons for this suggestions, and I open to further discussion.

5_ In the Status Bar, the total download and the total upload are displayed in xxx.x MB format (1 decimal digit, max 3 digits to the left of the decimal point), at least in my case. If I let utorrent running several days, this format changes to x.x GB (still 1 decimal digit) . Since the order of magnitude of the actual speed is not changing, this change in the displayed format means that the next time I will see this number changing (from 1.1 to 1.2 GB) will be 100 times the previous period, when it was displayed as xxx.x MB. This is specially important in cases with low speeds, where quiting ut and starting again would not be desirable. Several format options could be suitable. One, which I don't recommend, is letting ut to display xxxx.x MB (more digits, still in MB, up to 6 or 7 total digits before changing to GB). Another possible display format could be using 4 total digits *always*, even when changing to GB, like 1.234 GB (not 1.2 GB as the 1.7.7 stable version), 12.34 GB, 123.4 GB, 1.234 TB. For some people, having more decimal digits is annoying, and that's why I don't suggest 12.345 GB and 123.456 GB. The *always 4 digits* format staggers the current format change from MB to GB. I want to emphasize that this always-4-total-digits-display suggestion is in relation to the Totals in the *Status Bar*. Display formats in other sections of utorrent should be discussed separately. As before, I have more arguments for this suggestion, if anyone is interested.

IMHO, this suggestions could add to the consistency/coherence of the utorrent User Interface. These are more *display* suggestions, rather than new *feature* suggestions, and if the mods think this thread should be moved, please do so. Any comments?

[jewelisheaven]

You haven't read the help file... It's linked below and on the http://utorrent.com/download.php page for user convenience.

Number display is... ongoing. There's several posts in the beta dev thread about display and whether significant digits or decimal precision should be used.

[ady4um]

Thanks for replying.

Actually, I did read the help file. Maybe I miss something? Could you be more specific?

About the display format, I read about columns display formats in the torrent's list in the forum, but I searched the forum for these items and didn't find anything - including the Status Bar display format - and I think each format has its pros and cons. But I was talking about the avg. in suggestion 4, and about the totals in the Status Bar in the last one. I still would like to hear opinions, and if anyone ( jewelisheaven? mods? devs? anyone else? ) would be interested I would like to post my arguments for the formats I proposed, or about the other suggestions.

In any case, I'm glad these display formats are discussed and eventually this could improve ut UI for the user.

[Ultima]

1. Sorta already on the list of things I compiled for Ryan (the main UI coder) to look at:

Those suggestions that 420 made at the bottom of his post sounds reasonable to me, though I would actually prefer changing "Remaining" to "Time Remaining" over changing "Time Elapsed" to "Elapsed", since "Remaining" sounds like it could mean "amount of data remaining to be downloaded/uploaded".

2. Interesting. The only problem I'd have with that is that having a non-zero ETA (time) after download completion is probably easier for new users to digest than having a non-zero Remaining (size) after download completion. I do see the consistency value here, though.

3. That was also suggested to Ryan by icleolion and myself, but honestly, I feel that adding more information to the General tab now needs a certain balance between usefulness and information overload. Until recently, µTorrent 1.8 actually had the Transfer and General tabs separated. In that situation, information was rather sparse on either tab, and adding more fields on the tabs made a lot of sense. Alas, the decision was made for the two tabs to be merged together again, so again, adding information to the tabs requires a bit more decision-making than just "oh, let's make it consistent" :/ I too, am a consistency freak, so again, I do understand your reasoning here.

4. That breaks with consistency with other fields that contain floating-point numbers. I don't see it happening unless there is some way to revert the floating-point display back to precision-based truncation everywhere in µTorrent.

5. Understandable, but it's the same as with my response to 4. As jewelisheaven mentioned, this was discussed before. I'm not surprised you couldn't find it, though, as the discussion was buried somewhere in the massive µTorrent 1.8 beta announcement thread.

BTW, any interface changes will be reflected in the manual, so no need to say "and updated the manual too" -- I do keep an eye on the changelog and in close contact with the devs

[ady4um]

Ultima, thanks for joining this thread. About point 1, I'm not sure I emphasize enough the point. I'm not so much interested *how* the info is called, and I see it has been discussed already. But whatever you call each info, it should remain consistent. If the estimated-time-to-finish (dl or goal) is called ETA in the torrent's list, this same info should be called ETA also in the general pane. Moreover, IMO it can be "confusing" when the bytes-to-finish info in the torrent's list is called "Remaining" (in the context of Size, Completed and other columns referring to size), while the same word "Remaining" in the general pane is referring to estimated-TIME-to-finish (dl or goal).

About item 2, the size-to-finish, currently called "Remaining" in the torrent's list, is not shown by default. ETA, on the other hand, is there by default. So people asking for ETA (or whatever name the devs should decide for it) not being 0 in seeding mode should not be a reason for not to change the SIZE-to finish behaviour accordingly. Actually, the suggested change could potentially *help* new users to understand the ETA not being zero. IMO, the TIME-to-finish (dl ot goal) is important, but the SIZE-to finish (dl or goal) could be important too (like HDD space, and for bandwith limits as GB per month). Call the estimated-time-to-finish (dk or goal) whatever you want, and size-to-finish (dl or goal) whatever you like. But using the same word "Remaining" for 2 different concepts IMO is not such a good idea, specially for new users.

In the help file, general tab: *REMAINING* displays the estimated amount of *time* needed for µTorrent to finish downloading the torrent job. If the torrent job is in seeding mode, then the **ETA** displays ...

Also in the help file: torrent job list: *ETA* displays the estimated amount of time needed for µTorrent to finish downloading the torrent job...

Also in the help file: torrent job list: *Remaining* displays the amount of data left for µTorrent to download before it finishes downloading the torrent job...

So you can see the use of the same word "remaining" for 2 different things.

About adding the size-to-finish (dl or goal) in the general pane, as of ut beta build 10524 there is space to display it, for example under "Up Limit:", in the same row of "Status:". IMHO, the "future" info, like ETA and size-to-finish (dl or goal) is not less important than the "past" info, like the already downloaded or uploaded bytes, or the already elapsed time. Nevertheless, adding this info to the general pane is less important, in terms of consistency, than changing the "Remaing" name to ETA (or whatever the current ETA name will be). As for useful info, and for consistency, I'm still voting for using the size-to-finish (called currently "Remaining" in the job list) for dl AND for goal, as the current ETA in terms of time.

About items 4 and 5, Ultima, you have a point, speaking about conistency. But, consistency is not always "displaying every info in the same format". I see consistency / coherence as "using the appropriate format for each kind of info, according to its objective". For example, I can understand using kB/s for speeds, as opposed of using bits/s in some places and bytes/sec in others. The Totals infos in the Status Bar is an accumulating data. If you show this info in the Status Bar, is because you think is somehow important (I agree). This info is changing, showing the accumulate bytes downloaded/uploaded. If the user has to wait for several hours (or even more) to see any change, this info is not displaying very accurate nor very useful data. On the other hand, the order of magnitude of the dl and ul speeds in the Status Bar is not an accumulate data and is not changing (emphasize in "order of magnitude"). So these 2 infos are very different from each other. Moreover, one is related to time (kB/s), and the other is accumulate bytes (MB, GB, TB). In this context, they are used for very different objectives, so is understandable they *could* use a different format. About avg. speeds, well, the logic is very similar. My suggestion adds usefulness, staggering the change from xxx.x MB - which changes once every 5 or 6 minutes (or 12 or 2, but minutes) - to x.x GB - which at the same ul or dl speed changes once a day. Keep in mind I'm talking about order of magnitud, so each user could see these numbers changing slower or faster, but still the *changes* are measured in minutes first (xxx.x MB), and hours or days after (x.x GB). I have more arguments for items 4 and 5, but I would like to hear from you about what I already wrote.

[kayedj]

Just to add my 2p in...

From what I understand, ETA means "Estimated Time of Arrival". To me, this implies that we are moving - going somewhere. My suggestion would be to change "ETA" to "ETC", meaning "Estimated Time of Completion"

I also agree with the points of adding more decimal places. Perhaps there should be an option to display the number that you want, with the default as it is now?

Cheers

[Firon]

Despite being somewhat of a misnomer, ETA is used everywhere for this purpose. As a result, it'll stay as it is.

[ady4um]

When I first posted this thread I was hoping some arguments for or against my suggestions. I wanted not just to write a long post with *all* my arguments, but to open the discussion.

Since several names, like ETA, were already discussed, no one seem to look at this post the way I was expecting. Or maybe I just can't explain myself.

I will say it again. I really don't care so much HOW you call it. Right now, it is ETA, and it is fine with me. What I really care about is UI coherence, and that's why I presented these suggestions in one thread, instead of opening several topics.

The *INCOHERENCE* is in the way ut presents the info, and the ETA/Remaining is one example. In the torrent jobs' list, the word "ETA" is related to TIME, and the word "Remaining" is related to SIZE. In the "General Tab", the word related to TIME is the same word "Remaining". This info, TIME, should also be called ETA, as in the list above. The use of the same word "Remaining" for TWO DIFFERENT MEASURES is IMO, not a good idea.

The help file shows this incoherence.

In the TORRENT JOB'S LIST:

**ETA** displays the estimated amount of TIME needed for µTorrent to finish downloading the torrent job. If the torrent job is in seeding mode, then the ETA displays the estimated time it will take for µTorrent to reach the seeding goal. If the torrent job is stopped or has reached its seeding goal ∞ will be displayed. Note that this column takes selective file downloading into account, so only the data you select to be downloaded will be counted.

**Remaining** displays the amount of **DATA** left for µTorrent to download before it finishes downloading the torrent job. Note that this column takes selective file downloading into account, so only the data you select to be downloaded will be counted.

But, in the GENERAL TAB:

**Remaining** displays the estimated amount of **TIME** needed for µTorrent to finish downloading the torrent job. If the torrent job is in seeding mode, then the **ETA** displays the estimated time it will take for µTorrent to reach the seeding goal. If the torrent job is stopped or has reached its seeding goal ∞ will be displayed. Note that this field takes selective file downloading into account, so only the data you select to be downloaded will be counted.

I hope this time I was clear enough, and I will be glad to listen about this and my other suggestions posted in this topic.

[jewelisheaven]

Since you have a place for both of those information in the list nothing will change. There is a better place for your remaining size in General, which is why it is there and not with the time.

[ady4um]

Example:

In the General Tab:

Remaining: 2h 50m

Remaining reflects **TIME**

In the torrent list:

ETA Remaining

2h 50m 40.0 MB

Remaining reflects **SIZE**

Does anyone think that the word "remaining" should reflect just one of the two, or time or size?

ut should be coherent/consistent about the data and type of info this word is showing, don't you think?

I'm not requesting to show it or to remove it from anywhere. I just want to point out that **the same word** is reflecting **two different things**. If you write a glossary for ut (like the one in the help file), what do you think the word "Remaining" should be? Define "Remaining". If you use "ETA" to show something (a specific *time* as defined in the help file), and you are showing this *same* info/data (2h 50m in the example) in two different places in the ut UI, you should be using this same name ETA all over the UI.

Moreover, if you use the word "Remaining" to show size-to-finish, please don't use the *same* word "Remaining" to show a *different* type of info/data in another place of the ut UI. Please use a consistent UI.