Some obvious availability/speed optimisation necessary

[MaxFun]

Well, I´m a pretty new user of torrent programs, although I´m a seasoned comp user else. But I´ve followed my friend using several of these programs for quite some time, and the frustratingly low downloading AND uploading speeds have been boggling my mind already before. Now, as I´ve been downloading a couple of major (2GB) files myself, those same issues have become really irritating, as I KNOW both my downloading AND uploading capasities are certainly way beyond what I can see happening.

I do understand the system is dependent on whoever may have the requested pieces of files and on their available rates. But when there are practically always loads of similar people as myself, having half of the file downloaded, with high download/upload rates (for myself 2M/s download, 512k/s upload) available at no extra cost, I simply cannot understand huge files moving at rates as low as 2k/s (and even less!) all the time, and transfers possibly taking a week and more! All those ppl having the missing packets simply cannot have been using all the capacity they have up to the full all the time... Also note that my UL/DL ratio keeps at 1.8-2.6, so any packet sent to myself didn´t just come to myself but speeded up the overall availability by that factor (actually multiplied availability by factor+1)! There´s absolutely no reason why those packets didn´t arrive here first, if availability is of any issue (as it always is!), to be sent to many more further as well - and even much faster than I got them! So, I could even understand poor availability, but not why my own capacity shouldn´t be used to help that!

Even the less I can understand situations when there are even more than a thousand peers waiting for a given file, which I´ve finished downloading and thus am currently seeding as the ONLY seeder (temporarily) - but my upload rate for that file hits ZERO! At the same time I´m still uploading another file, which does have much fewer peers but better supply...

Now, I know there are legal matters and stuff, possibly. But I simply cannot understand why the clients/trackers cannot keep optimising the availability and download rate better. Below is a list of issues I´ve noticed, and which I feel should be fixed. Some probably are what the program actually does take care of already, but some obviously aren´t.

1. Whichever the case, there should be no reason why any packet scarcely available shouldn´t be sent immediately at maximum upload rate to someone who can be expected to spread those packets further efficiently (high UL/DL ratio) and has a high speed connection available for that. The goal should naturally be to always keep full (maximal) availability online, and whenever someone having missing packets appears online, those packets should be spread at maximal efficiency, first to someone who can be expected to keep the availability high, then to others. (Keeping track of good spreaders trustworthily is a problem, but any estimate of that is better than none. Quick download of lately requested packets from that IP certainly is one. And the client could pass on some encrypted figures like UL/DL ratio to the tracker, for instance.)

2. Rather than speeding up the download of those recipients who are close to getting full file, their almost complete stock of packets should first be used to ensure further availability of the given file by speeding up their upload of the most scarce packets to those who likely will remain keeping them online the longest, i.e. those who just started downloading that file. Furthermore, some optimation regarding the expected online time of the downloader (e.g. timezone doesn´t tell much, but it does tell some) could be applied.

3. Unique packets which are poorly available (rarely encountered, behind poor connection, large demand) should have immediate first priority for upload, so the availabilty will improve as quickly as possible.

4. If someone is regularly online, has a fast connection and a fast computer, and if that computer isn´t busy with else, such a client could well be used to ´route´ packets to other machines in case there appears to be a bottleneck in availability. (Basically what I told in #1 already, if that client has requested the packet itself. However, it might as well temporarily help keeping some limited supply of rare packets it didn´t request itself.)

I´m expecting this to be torched away, but I´m simply fed up waiting for packets dropping in at 2k/s and to wait a week, when I know people most often have a hundred times faster connections and ability to spread the packets much more efficiently. (In another thread on these forums I just read about someone japanese whose connection is even 100 000 times faster than that, and although he complained about else, I could see him having pretty much the same problem!)

And finally, thanks for the great service already as it is!

~Max Fun

*hides away*

[Switeck]

Even the less I can understand situations when there are even more than a thousand peers waiting for a given file, which I´ve finished downloading and thus am currently seeding as the ONLY seeder (temporarily) - but my upload rate for that file hits ZERO!

Chances are, your ISP is simply throttling and crippling BitTorrent traffic.

Who's your ISP by the way?

(Rogers, Shaw, InsightBB, Singtel by any chance?)

[MaxFun]

Chances are, your ISP is simply throttling and crippling BitTorrent traffic.

Who's your ISP by the way?

(Rogers, Shaw, InsightBB, Singtel by any chance?)

That has crossed my mind, indeed. But that simply doesn´t explain the difference that I was getting with the first and the second of the two major chunks I´ve been downloading.

I did reach a pretty nice DL rate up to ~70-140kB/s for the first one, but this second one is a pain, although I´ve been DLing them practically simultaneously from the start. As the first one came through much faster, I´ve been seeding it for a whole day now (note there are ~1000 peers in that swarm, so the availability even without me should be excellent any time!), raising my share ratio for it already up to 3.5.

And even this laggard has a ratio of 1.94, as I´m continuously feeding it back faster than I´m getting those pieces myself. If the ISP were throttling me, I would wonder why they´d still let the outgoing traffic keep up a very decent ~70-100kB/s pace while incoming traffic barely gets 7-15kB/s for this file and another one was getting in even over 100kB/s simultaneously! Randomizing the port frequently does help a bit, although I´m still not at all happy with the currently averaged ~12kB/s DL rate.

Now, even if I were being throttled, the pieces coming through should have some sense in keeping the availability up. If this latter file really was poorly available (availability has been ranging from .900 to 3.900), the more reason there would be for those rare pieces to be sent to such an eager spreader as myself swiftly! That´s the only way to improve the availability efficiently, so that those who are missing those same pieces would also get them fast. But instead of supporting availability by getting the rare ones, I´m now getting mostly pieces that aren´t rare at all. E.g. those pieces downloading to me currently have availability 3-5, although the total availability of the file is just below 2! Instead, I should be swiftly getting copies of some of those unique pieces to guarantee the availability in case the supplier of those pieces goes offline! I cannot believe I would be the one having ALL those unique pieces myself already...

One thing the ISP certainly cannot affect is, that I´m still uploading the first file at a much faster pace all the time, while there obviously would be just as much and even more demand for the second file, which has a much smaller swarm, and if I got my own pieces quicker, I could help this latter one much more.

My ISP is non of those Switek mentioned. I´m from Finland, and my ISP is Elisa, formerly known as the local telephone company of Helsinki area, which is one of the major telecom enterprises in Finland. (I don´t need to tell you the #1 is Nokia, which doesn´t provide internet connections, however. But I can list half a dozen others which do, and Elisa is one of the top three of those.)

[Firon]

Have you capped your upload? or done the basic settings in the stickies here and FAQ entry about slow torrents?

[MaxFun]

Well, I don´t see any reasn why capping upload would effect my download, as neither is near the max.

I did notice the "NAT error" thingy now, though. Lemme see, if I can do something about it. I guess solving that will help, if I can manage that.

[Firon]

Well, you should cap it anyway, to 80% of your actual max upload (in KiB/s)

What's your connection speed?

[MaxFun]

The "NAT Error" vanished when I booted uTorrent, but there still isn´t such "Net OK" text down there. I doubt there ever was, even when I was getting the good rates, because I believe I´d have noticed. But now the rate dropped even lower, to only ~2kB/s.

I also capped the rates now. My connection is ADSL 2M/512k. I have rarely exceeded 1M download speed in any case, although that´s probably because not many sources are able to provide that fast connection, but 1M should be quite natural. I haven´t used uploading much yet, and the rate uTorrent is using (~100k) is pretty satisfactory for me in relation to the download rates reached, although I would expect figures closer to the max, of course.

[Firon]

You only need to cap the upload rate to 80%, not the download rate.

And it vanished because it doesn't remember the status across sessions. It's showing blank since you're running torrents with small swarms and it can't gauge it reliably. Since you did nothing, it's probably still not able to receive incoming connections.

Probe your port with this: https://www.grc.com/x/portprobe=portnumber

replacing portnumber with your port of course

[MaxFun]

I´m not sure whether uTorrent would expect this result for its functionality, but I´m expecting if for my security...

Probing Your Port 37091

The GRC server is attempting to establish a TCP

connection to Port 37091 of your computer located

at Internet at IP address 80.186.46.195:

Total elapsed testing time: 5.022 seconds

Port

Status Protocol and Application

37091

Stealth Unknown Protocol for this port

Unknown Application for this port

[Firon]

That's bad then. It means you can't receive incoming connections, which often results in slower speeds for torrents. Perhaps you should fix it.

[MaxFun]

Hmmmm... My computer excepts connections for uTorrent. It must be my router/firewall blocking those then, right? Gotta try changing its settings for a chosen port then, I guess.

If that´s not the case, any fixes?

[MaxFun]

Heyyyy... That worked! I opened the port I´m using at the router now, and the DL speed keeps rising steadily... It just broke 100kB/s!

Instead of days the ETA is now only a few hours.

Thanks pal! I learned a lot now.

(uTorrent could still give a more noticeable hint of what might be wrong... There wasn´t any hint for the beginning, and even that "NAT error" is poorly visible and doesn´t tell much... Also, 80-90kB/s still isn´t near my max capasity... )

Edit: The top speed I´ve noticed since opening the port has been 177.4kB/s. Quite considerable a change from less than 10kB/s before. Now, this starts sounding more like it.

Edit #2: Topped 206.0kB/s Although shortly after that the speed has dropped back down to 30kB/s again, as some Swede I was downloading very quickly from dropped offline.

Edit #3: Unfortunately the down rate has dropped back to around ~20kB/s again once that crazy Swede feeding me went offline... (Despite that I have the text "Network OK" over there, and availability of the file is 4.999.)

[Firon]

Well, a lot of torrents are just plain slow. Once you fix problems on your side (settings, 80% upload cap, Network OK), there's not much more you can do except hope for the best, unfortunately, since your speeds depend on the upload speeds of others.

[MaxFun]

I´ve got back to square #1 with my initial post again. Now I have "Network OK", and I have the port being used open... And the DL rate has dropped to around ~15kB/s!

So, everything should be fine now, but the rate remains ridiculously slow, although the availability of the file is 9.993... Every reason would suggest the file should be downloading much faster to me. Simply take a look at the spare capasity I have idle and which I could well use to spread the packets, if only I got them faster myself. I really cannot imagine all upload capacity would be exhausted everywhere else, and just I would be left with idle resources for some weird optimisation cause.

[Firon]

I've got availability of 24.999 on a torrent, and it's going at 60-80 KB/s, which isn't too fast, but reasonable. On most public torrents I usually pull atleast 150, more commonly 200+, but like I said, some torrents just aren't fast.

Oh, and you're using beta 389 right?

[Switeck]

My ISP is non of those Swite[c]k mentioned. I´m from Finland, and my ISP is Elisa, formerly known as the local telephone company of Helsinki area, which is one of the major telecom enterprises in Finland. (I don´t need to tell you the #1 is Nokia, which doesn´t provide internet connections, however. But I can list half a dozen others which do, and Elisa is one of the top three of those.)

[...]

Edit #2: Topped 206.0kB/s Although shortly after that the speed has dropped back down to 30kB/s again, as some Swede I was downloading very quickly from dropped offline.

Edit #3: Unfortunately the down rate has dropped back to around ~20kB/s again once that crazy Swede feeding me went offline...

Good, that means your ISP isn't vulnerable to other ISPs in Finland throttling it upstream.

However your edit #2 and #3 either suggests there's very fast connections in Sweden/Finland or there's some preferential throttling done by your ISP or others nearby.

[MaxFun]

I´m using version 364. That´s the version I encountered for download. Gotta try and find the beta you are telling.

[MaxFun]

Ok, now I´m using the beta 389. I haven´t noticed much difference in speed so far.

Btw, there´s been a weird complication of my downloading... Me and my two friends are using a single shared ADSL line, which comes to the Telewell router/firewall, and thereafter a switch splits it into three lines. The two friends of mine have been browsing the net, and their connections have been considerably slower and jammy now, although they are using a completely different port (8080). Their connection being jammy yesterday with my fast download was quite understandable, but they also are experiencing slowness now when my download rate is being low (20kB/s). Relative to the whole width of our line (2MB/s) that shouldn´t have any noticeable effect...

[Firon]

Your upload has more of an effect on the line speed than the download.