BitTorrent not the P2P solution for those who pay for bandwidth?

[planetthoughtful]

Hi All,

I'm relatively new to BitTorrent as a P2P platform, having previously used Ares. After playing around with µtorrent for a few days, I've come to the conclusion that while BitTorrent is a great way to share files, it hits hard on those who have to pay for their bandwidth.

In Australia, there is no such thing as 'unlimited bandwidth' [1] - we have to pay for excess usage over whatever is included in our monthly subscription [2]. In playing with BitTorrent, and the µtorrent client, it seems that conceptually every download will cost me twice the amount of data I actually receive, because of upload / download balancing. I realise it's not that simple, but I'm currently looking at a torrent that is downloading and I've received 290mb and uploaded 242mb, so even if it isn't a 1-to-1 relationship, I have to factor in when using BitTorrent that it effectively (and approximately) halves the amount of downloads I can perform in a month.

I realise that 'leeching is bad', and would particularly be so if there's no other reason for it aside from data hoarding and an unwillingness to share, but in some countries leeching is simply an economic reality.

So, sadly, as much as I like using BitTorrent, and as much as I dearly wish I could contribute back to the torrent as much as I take from it (or, even better, that I could *afford* to), it looks like I'm going to have to head back to Ares.

Just thought I'd share my thoughts on the subject, as not all leeches are deliberately being antisocial, but are forced into that behaviour because US internet providers use foreign markets to subsidise US internet users. Sad (for those of us outside the US), but true.

Much warmth to all,

planetthoughtful

[1] Or, where 'unlimited bandwidth' is advertised, they ordinarily mean a certain amount of bandwidth at the normal speed of your connection, and then traffic-shaping, usually down to a crawl that would make a 56k modem seem lightning fast, for the remainder of the month.

[2] Unfortunately, US providers charge Australian providers by bandwidth, and of course Australian providers pass those costs entirely on to users

[Klaus_1250]

Isn't there anyway you can switch to a provider that doesn't have these datalimits? Usually there are a few smaller ISP's that don't have such limits, though I have no clue about the broadband ISP market in Australia.

It is strange that you download normally at a 2:1 ratio, I usually have a 1:3 - 1:10 ratio before seeding (I usually seed to 2:1 (private) or 1.5 to 1 (public) ). What is your upload?

[1c3d0g]

...

I realise that 'leeching is bad', and would particularly be so if there's no other reason for it aside from data hoarding and an unwillingness to share, but in some countries leeching is simply an economic reality.

...

Although I understand your situation, I'll have to disagree. If you can't share back (for whatever reason), then BitTorrent is not for you and you shouldn't use it. It sucks I know, but it would be better to find other P2P networks like eMule, Gnucleus or Kazaa which can be "hit-and-run" without worry.

[planetthoughtful]

Unfortunately Kazaa has been made illegal in Australia. Or, more to the point, Sharman, which is an Australian company and which produces Kazaa, has been ordered by a court to no longer make Kazaa available to Australians.

I don't know anything about eMule or Gnucleus, but I'll take a look at them. As I said in my original post, I only really have any previous experience with Ares.

The shame of it is that there is a great deal of content on BitTorrent that I can't find on Ares.

And to the other poster who suggested finding 'smaller' ISPs that offer unlimited bandwidth, as I also mentioned in my original post, they just don't exist, because our ISPs get charged by their US providers for the volume of data they push back and forth, and so Australian Internet users bear that cost.

The plan I'm on is pretty good by Australian standards - for $90 a month I get 15gb of transfer during 'peak hours' (7am to midnight) and 25gb of transfer in 'off peak hours' (midnight to 7am). The problem being, I'd like to download several seasons of a classic television show I have fond memories of from when I was growing up, to the total of just under 10gb. Using BitTorrent, getting those shows will probably chew up somewhere between 15gb to 20gb of my monthly allowance when uploads are taken into account with downloads. If I don't plan appropriately, and chew that bandwidth during peak hours, I'll spend the majority of my days during the month running at a slower speed than I would get from a 56k modem, while paying for an ADSL connection.

Annoying in the extreme.

Much warmth,

planetthoughtful

[Ulayo]

Have you thought about scheduling? You could limit your bandwidth during peak hours and let if run unlimited during off peak hours.

[Klaus_1250]

You can't use eDonkey for hit and runs, even not with a leecher mod. eDonkey is good if you have a decent upload, no bandwidth limmitations and a lot patience. Gnutella, Gnutella 2 and Ares are better, but you won't find rare content on Gnutella and most likely also not on Ares. Gnutella 2 would be better, as it holds a lot of content from the eDonkey and BitTorrent, but it isn't as fast as it used to be. Finding a decent number of sources also requires some aggresive searching.

$90 for 40GB??? Australian Dollars I presume? What speeds are we talking about? I wouldn't be too happy with a situation where Internet Connectivity and costs depend on US-companies. I don't having anything against the US, but they're not known for their business ethics nor for Freedom of speech as they often proclaim. Why doesn't Australian Goverment intervene?

[Switeck]

I think he means Australia has to pay the international carriers that maintain the pacific trunk lines, which "incidentally" mostly happen to be in the USA.

But although the price may seem high, his alloted GB/month amount would be an envy of people in Great Britian, South Africa, and especially Australia's nearby neighbor -- New Zealand.

I can understand with wanting to bow out early once you get the files you're after with even those limits.

But what you're wanting to do is strictly leech. And that's simply cheating the system AND those on it.

Do yourself a favor -- don't get ip banned for bad behavior. BitTorrent may soon be the file-sharing system of LAST resort in Australia because it's one of the few left.

Set your download+upload bandwidth speed in µTorrent considerably below your max download+upload bandwidth for your connection. That way, you don't have to pay double for lost/discarded packets from momentarily exceeding your max speed. Disable DHT on ANY torrent that has decent seeds/peers.

If you really wanted to go nuts, you could probably configure net limiter to limit download+upload speeds to ips outside of Australia to a much lower limit. Some ISPs in Australia and New Zealand only count international traffic towards the GB/month limit.

And you could even use µTorrent's ipfilter.dat to ban particularly "leechy" ips that download alot from you but give little to nothing back.

[splintax]

Switeck is correct in regard to bandwidth costs.

Speaking as a fellow Aussie here, I can say that your internet plan sucks. Are you on Telstra?

I'm on an iiNet DSLAM with my phone bundled in with my connection. I pay $34 a month for line rental (expensive ), but call costs are reasonable. On top of that, I pay $70 per month and get:

- 20mbit download, 1mbit upload (if you're not on an iiNet DSLAM, bad luck - but you still get 1.5mbit download, 256kbit upload)

- 20gb peak quota, 20gb offpeak quote - and uploads are not counted - most non-shitty ISPs over here don't count uploads, mainly just telstra

- free VoIP line that transfers to the PSTN, so I can call any number in the world at much cheaper rates

It's probably crap compared to offerings in parts of the US and especially to places like Japan, Scandinavian countries etc, but it's good for Australia.

Stop bad-mouthing your country

edit: more info on my isp here