"Update Tracker" - Please face the music.

[Andy_Cool]

Hi

There was this thread where a few, including me, cribbed about how

it sucked that the "update tracker" feature was tweaked. Now, I see

that thread is moved to trash.

Arent you behaving like a typical corporation would? I mean, lets face it.

Few users were not satisfied with that tweak you did, & they might

as well be in extreme minority. But why scuttle their voice? They

are irate only because they love this client.

I am proud of the fact that I made many of my friends who are

hardcore torrenters switch from their loyal (& equally popular) clients

to uTorrent. So if few of us complain about some new feature we get

kicked to the trash?! There was nothing insulting or abusive in that

thread. Also, the complaints do not necessarily have to translate into

action. You can keep that tweak forever. But arent you supposed to

give at least an ear to your somewhat dissatisfied (albeit loyal) users?

So was the thread trashed because it made an irrelevant point or for

the fear that it might make other users realize this quite relevant

point?

Thanks for your time.

Andy.

*Thread in quesiton*

http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=44254

[Maleblake]

I agree with you Andy_Cool. The only time I used the update tracker was when I was going to shut utorrent down before shutting off my computer. I don't consider that constantly updating the tracker needlessly. I just wanted to make sure my uploads were counted and I don't want to wait the 30 minutes it takes till the next update cycle. Since you have chosen to take that out I have downgraded to 1.7.7. I hated the new icon anyway. I don't much like the cavalier way it has been explained as to why this option was restricted.

[DreadWingKnight]

The only time I used the update tracker was when I was going to shut utorrent down before shutting off my computer.

uTorrent does this automatically, you don't need to do it yourself.

[Firon]

Yes, closing the client automatically announces to the tracker. So will stopping the torrents.

It's completely unnecessary for you to do that.

[donniedurton]

I found that manually updating the tracker allowed me to connect to more peers.....without this, I am stuck with only one or two peers for 15 minutes until it automatically does it. Another good reason to revert to an earlier version of utorrent.

[DreadWingKnight]

Not really.

Hammering the tracker doesn't solve anything.

Correct your configuration.

Be connectable, because if you aren't, it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to connect to firewalled peers in either direction.

I PERMANENTLY banned transmission from my main tracker cluster because of logic like that.

[Switeck]

Part of the problem is private torrents...you can only get new peer and seed connections either from the tracker OR because they got YOUR ip from the tracker and they connected to you.

Except there's one problem...if you're FIREWALLED, peers and seeds CAN'T connect to you!

So you're stuck with only the ip list you got from the tracker.

Worse, if you're firewalled...and needing to maintain your ratio on a private tracker...you probably won't be able to. It won't even matter if you have an incredibly high upload speed! New peers can't connect to you even if they're not firewalled and if the torrents are small enough they will become seeds themselves by the time you get THEIR ip from the tracker.

In that way, private torrents are just plain broken...

Open, public torrents have the advantage of both DHT and Peer Exchange to quickly find more peers and seeds to connect to.

The dumbest combination of all is a public tracker that doesn't maintain ratios that has private torrents on them. These become unseeded QUICKER than public torrents!

Being able to hammer "Update Tracker" to get a bigger peer/seed list won't solve any of these problems. Getting unfirewalled will help FAR more.

Worst comes to worst, if you copy the peer list you could restart uTorrent...get another update from the tracker/s...and ad the peers/seeds back to the torrents 1-by-1. You'd really only need to add the 1 or 2 that worked.

[Cody900]

Since you have chosen to take that out I have downgraded to 1.7.7. I hated the new icon anyway. I don't much like the cavalier way it has been explained as to why this option was restricted.

I found that manually updating the tracker allowed me to connect to more peers.....without this, I am stuck with only one or two peers for 15 minutes until it automatically does it. Another good reason to revert to an earlier version of utorrent.

These 2 sum it up perfectly, and so I've also downgraded to 1.7.7, nothing more need be said.

[Firon]

If your port is forwarded, as it should be, they'll automatically connect to you the moment they join the torrent.

If you wanna update more often, you should ask the tracker to lower min interval. The reason it's restricted is because the tracker set that minimum update interval for the client should respect. How hard is this to understand? It has nothing to do with "us being the police" and everything to do with respecting the tracker's settings.

Downgrading to 1.7.7 isn't an option, due to various security exploits in it.

[donniedurton]

"Downgrading to 1.7.7 isn't an option, due to various security exploits in it."

What an arrogant thing to say. Of course its an option. It's our choice, we can deal with the supposed security exploits if we so wish. Who are you to dictate whether we can downgrade or not. People do it everyday when someone messes with a well working app and manages to make it even more buggy.

[Firon]

This isn't a bug. The enforcement of min interval is merely added because that's what it exists for in the tracker spec.

Supposed exploit, hm?

All you have to do is run a single torrent and you're fucked. So downgrading is far from an option.

[thelittlefire]

... You don't want to obey the tracker's idea of minimum interval use another client which disrespects standards like that. Telling others to use another version when it has PUBLIC exploits is plain stupid.

[Switeck]

Firon said: "If your port is forwarded, as it should be, they'll automatically connect to you the moment they join the torrent."

If the torrent is active enough and has LOTS of seeds, then a new peer may not get your ip from the tracker. Many trackers hand out at most 50 ip addresses. If your IP isn't one of them, you're S.O.L. I've even heard of companies intentionally poisoning trackers with "bad" ips to make it hard for real peers and seeds to find each other.

As I've already pointed out, private torrents are FATALLY FLAWED...it is them and pretty much ONLY them that has even the slightest need to "Update Tracker" more often than the minimum tracker interval.

This is yet another reason why private trackers SHOULD NOT try to force a 1:1 sharing ratio and instead have a much lower sharing ratio. And also encourage seeders with high sharing ratios to quit running torrents so others can share to reach their ratio too. The irony...forced sharing can be too much.

It is worth adding that you NEED to have Peer Exchange (PEX) and possibly DHT enabled while running public torrents...or the same thing can happen there to a lesser degree. Though even there, if you don't have PEX enabled...if 1 peer/seed connects to you, THEY may pass your ip along via PEX and DHT to many others.

[datadyne]

My problem with this would come into play when we talk about a select few trackers who have chosen to mark torrents as private for their tracker.

For example I know of at least one tracker (dattebayo) that uses the private feature, however when their release goes live there is only a few seeds around 3. Fast moving seeds but within minutes those seeds are overloaded with request. Should you be one of the first on this type of torrent you better hope to stay connected to a seed... Updating with the tracker is the only way to connect to the now massive swarm. Obviously you'll have whoever is in your peerlist when you started but now you're missing out on the several thousand potential peers. I find that to be highly inefficient.

I know most users wont notice it's absence, or even care if they do, and for the most part I won't either. But on that rare occasion that I do feel I need to update with the tracker I'd like to know that, that option is there.

I wont debate about the ethical implications of policing you're users, but make no mistake that is what you're doing. However honorable your intentions.

Is there no Middle ground to be reached? if there isn't I'd say you're convinced your way is the only way. Which in the world of programing and computing is just plain bad thinking.

Anyhoot, I've spoken with the admin of my favorite private tracker (which is among the best) and he simply didn't know where to find the option in xbnbt. His plight is the same as mine as he is an avid utorrent user himself. I fear it might be an all to common phenomenon with the default setting of bnbt and it's derivatives having a default announce of 1800 seconds (30 minutes).

[DreadWingKnight]

MOST BNBT derivatives don't actually send the min interval value, in which case, uT uses 60 seconds.

The configuration value (if it's supported by the version you're using) is min_announce_interval

It was only added to CBTT when clients like Transmission were ignoring the announce interval and hammering on a 5 minute cycle, regardless of the tracker's settings. I'm not sure if Xotic ported it or not.

[Switeck]

I'd like to be able to do 1 SUCCESSFUL manual announce once every 2 hours...gray it out the rest of the time, but still give us the option to do that if we want to. And if/when a successful announce is done, manual or otherwise, of course the full usual delay before the next one is tacked on to it.

Otherwise, WHY even have the button?

[thelittlefire]

If min_interval and interval are the same you should not be able to manually update. Current behavior makes perfect logical sense.