how µtorrent implements Speedmanagement to the upload channel ?

[Benjamin3005]

hi folks.

i love µtorrent bla bla.

i used bittornado + netlimiter before.

netlimiter is a program that limits the network bandwith of selected applications.

netmeter is a tool to mesure the network traffic. but netmeter mesures "all" traffic.

that means. also the ACK packets that are needed in TCPIP to say that the received packet was "ok".

so what i liked about µtorrent is that i not need netlimiter anymore. i had guessed.

i also like DHT much.

but hear comes the questions:

how is µtorrent deviding the different uploads

it got TCPIP ACK upload

it got the HASH ok upload.

it got all thoose requests and other bittorrent protocol related traffic.

and finnaly it got the DHT upload. its more than 2 kb/s sometimes.

so my question is... how is µtorrent limiting all thoose "under" uploads by just selecting one major upload limit.

here is my situation i got.

i got one seed uploading to me. it went perfectly at 30 kb/S all the time. no "pieces" needed to be uploaded in advance to "feed" em.

all this at the setting of 9 kb up.

when i now switch the upload limit from 9 to 3 or 4 . the DOWNLOAD goest down. the seed actually slows the upload to me.

as i guess its not the fault of the seed. when i then turn the upload back to 9 kb/s the seeds speed starts to grow back to 30 kb/S again.

so what is the upload setting limiting, if the seed doesnt "needs" anything from me ?

and 3 kb/s up are certainly enough to send the tcpip ACK and hash ok´s

you say no ? i say yes. cus when i start to limit µtorrent to even less to magical 1 kb /S from the "outside" with netlimiter,

(with µtorrent internal setting back to 10 kb up )

i receive the 30 kb / s perfectly well, without sending any pieces to the seed, as it dont need any of mine.(jaja mentioned it often enough now

question is.. why ?

why is the upload setting "inside" affecting my download from a seed imidiatly to going down.

but from the outside it works perfectly good ?`

now iam back with netlimiter limiting µtorrent, as the µtorrent upload restriction also restricts the download somehow.

and this "somehow" needs to be fixed.. maybe with 3 options 1.DHT upload limit(if that some how conflicts) , ACK limit (that the priority of the DHT traffic going thru TCPIP and producing ACK packets is lower than the ACK´s of the actual hash ok´s),

hash ok limits(that the hash ok´s from an fast peer is send top priority).

i dont know.. iam just sugesting. as i see it with my own eyes its µtorrents fault.

and i really dont want to use a 2nd program to limit a torrent client again :S

bla bla.. man i wrote a lot.. hope its more clear when iam writing this detailed.

thx in advance µtorrent team.

[Jon]

I understand what your saying and find it to be very interesting. I would love to see this answered in detail.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

i love µtorrent bla bla.

You don't have to flatter us, or the Creator Ludde. Not when you have a problem

when i now switch the upload limit from 9 to 3 or 4 . the DOWNLOAD goest down. the seed actually slows the upload to me.

You decreased your upload limit to under 6? I think you just had your first meet with Ludde's newest "Anti-Leeching" function. uTorrent now artificially chokes your download pipe if you close the pipe to under 6kB/s. It's a feature, not a bug.

This anti-leeching function is proving quite controversial, but I understand it and think that overall it is good for BitTorrent, though guys with VERY slow upload bandwidths may be affected. It is fair - no matter what the reason, you shouldn't be uploading <6kB/s and getting lots in return, but it may have to be tweaked. I don't think it is going away, though.

[Firon]

I still think ludde should change it to 3* the upload speed, instead of 2*. I'll poke him about it again when I see him, but I don't think he's gonna remove it.

[Jon]

1st question is are you serious about the anti leech ?

Sounds like a good idea, but could create problems depending on where it gets that number from, I have adjusted my upload limits per torrent on occassion, but never went below 8KB. Example I'm seeding 1 and want to finish so I limit the upload on another till the one I'm seeding gets another peer to seed status.

[Firon]

It only applies for global upload caps of 1-5 KiB/s. That is, if you artificially CAP it to that much. Your actual upload rate has no effect on it.

[Benjamin3005]

its an unbuild antileach thing ?

mhhh then i seriously have to think my use of µtorrent over.

cus i dont like to close my µtorrent and with that to loose all my "gained" ip´s of other people to play a short battlefield2 ,

i usually just set it to 1, to put it back on to 10.

from my understanding and long time experience the BT network is regulating its self isnt it ?

cus when iam restiricting the upload to 1 or 3, its a crawl. i dont give pieces, so i am being choked.

i dont get any, doesnt have the rest the same EXpierience ?

and with that.. you also know if you got a torrent with only seeds, that there is no one "wanting" pieces from you.

so i am a total leacher, but he.. there is no one to share something to. why a reglementation ?

why to throttle a good seed from me ?

is it FOR SURE that it isnt a network flow error and also occurs with settings higher than 5 but you cant see it as the error is then % to little ? but you still loose some download speed ?

i really liked a official statement, just to be sure its all like its supposed to be.

esp. with what version this came.. and if i can move back to this one, cus i dont want to use netlimiter.

thx folks till here

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

its an unbuild antileach thing ?

mhhh then i seriously have to think my use of µtorrent over.

cus i dont like to close my µtorrent and with that to loose all my "gained" ip´s of other people to play a short battlefield2 ,

I am a fringe-player when it comes to games, but IIRC Battlefield 2 is real-time. I find it hard to believe you would dare play any real-time game while most of the other resource-hogging clients are running - their imposed delays will be lethal even with at a low speed

i usually just set it to 1, to put it back on to 10.

If you are going to set it to 1kB/s, you are deliberately depriving the network of your upload contribution - in other words, you are a leech. Your reason does not matter.

If you don't want to leech and want to keep your peers, try the Pause button. It's there for a reason. Try to see whether you can keep it to 6kB/s and still keep your game running.

from my understanding and long time experience the BT network is regulating its self isnt it ?

cus when iam restiricting the upload to 1 or 3, its a crawl. i dont give pieces, so i am being choked.

Not perfectly. You will eventually slow down, I guess, but not always. If BitTorrent's self-regulation really works, no one would have to ban BitComet. The truth of the matter is that many people, even with something relatively well-behaved (I'd groan "meek" as I try to download in a BitComet infested weak torrent) as uTorrent, get away with uploading far less than they download. And that's inevitable - download pipes are just fatter, but that doesn't mean you should deliberately be not downloading.

and with that.. you also know if you got a torrent with only seeds, that there is no one "wanting" pieces from you.

As Firon explained it, in theory in such a situation, uTorrent should not get into your way. However, of course, that's where the BitTorrent's functioning principles tend to step in and make sure your download isn't all that great.

[Benjamin3005]

i dont know why you turned the thread into a "dodo" you a bad leecher discussion ?

as i allready said. i come very often into torrent networks were 5 seeds are waiting and no "leecher" are there.

so whats your problem? i dont care if some one leeches. i see it with my own eyes that i get better download speed when i upload more. there is nothing i would more pray for than friggn high upload connection. but germany is friggn 3rd world when it comes to upload. what about having ADSL2 with 16000 when you set to 1024 up ? i dont know dude.

but i dont like to trick µtorrent, just to be able to play online games. dont know about you knowing packet priorizing. i could set my router or download Cfosspeed to priorize my game. but iam not even doing that cus it doesnt lag anything in my computer.

and what about leech ? why is 3 kb up and 20 kb download restricted. but 9 up and 100 kb down not ? does some one get actually a good download speed with 3 kb only in an normal torrent ? even if there wouldnt be the restriction ? i dont experienced that in bitornado. and when you like to quote what about "However, of course, that's where the BitTorrent's functioning principles tend to step in and make sure your download isn't all that great."

isnt that great ? just laughing.. the seeds want to seed. and they are forbidden to do so cus the client side is blocking there bandwith ? whats this logic ?

ever downloaded a narute show ? you will not have the feeling the torrent needs your upload while you download with 240 .

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

i dont know why you turned the thread into a "dodo" you a bad leecher discussion ?

There are only a few posts in this thread, you asked why your download seemed choked, and I told you that it was probably the new anti-leeching system. All of a sudden, you seem to be whining about yourself restricting the uploading deliberately so you can play a game, and so I'm asking questions about whether you can restrict the upload less while you are playing the game and telling you WHY it was implemented.

as i allready said. i come very often into torrent networks were 5 seeds are waiting and no "leecher" are there.

If no leecher is there to waste your precious Battlefield2 Uploading bandwidth on, then why bother restricting the upload limit when you go in? The upload will be about the same either way (close to zero).

so whats your problem? i dont care if some one leeches.

You don't. I don't either. However, the principle of BitTorrent is that everyone tries to give an upload. Every time someone deliberately restricts his pipe to a very narrow setting, theoretically some other leecher on the torrent suffers for it.

i dont know dude.

I'm suffering on 6Mbps/512kbps. Most people's upload pipes are far narrower than their downloading pipes, which is why upload is a precious resource.

i could set my router or download Cfosspeed to priorize my game. but iam not even doing that cus it doesnt lag anything in my computer.

There is no way uTorrent can stop all forms of deliberate leeching for any reason. All it can do is discourage the easy ones. But if Cfossspeed prioritization is the only way without crashing your game, go ahead. Just leave uTorrent's uploading at 6kB/s. That way, if your game has a low uploading period, uTorrent can make use of it.

and what about leech ? why is 3 kb up and 20 kb download restricted. but 9 up and 100 kb down not ? does some one get actually a good download speed with 3 kb only in an normal torrent ?

I don't really know. In theory, you shouldn't, and I think it catches up with you eventually, but many times I restricted my upload in Azureus and BitComet for a few minutes when I just HAD to do something else (the computer moves an inch faster that way), and a surge of download speed follows. It slows up after a while, but you are still ahead in terms of ratio (for example, 5kB/s Up might get you 20kB/s Down, but 48kB/s Up might get only get 50kB/s Down).

Ludde is (as I see it) trying to compromise between the practical reality of narrow uploading pipes and deliberate leeching. He doesn't want to punish the ADSLers with their 128kbps up pipes (which seems to be what you are having) but he doesn't want them to leech. One is often unable to upload at a good rate - but the health of a torrent depends on everyone putting at least a reasonable effort.

Again can you run your game with 6kB/s of upload on? If you can, then do so. If you can't, you have to make some tough choices. And if you can but you restrict it anyway, why?

isnt that great ? just laughing.. the seeds want to seed. and they are forbidden to do so cus the client side is blocking there bandwith ? whats this logic ?

ever downloaded a narute show ? you will not have the feeling the torrent needs your upload while you download with 240 .

That's the logic. The theory with BitTorrent as I understand it is that there may be seeds, but more importantly a whole lot of other guys with something but not everything to share. Thus the system was optimized to work best in such a situation. If you are in a seeds-only situation, that's kind of like normal downloading, and I don't think BitTorrent was optimized to work well in such a situation, so performance tends to suffer. I've seen the performance of BitTorrent in a pure-seeds situation. Generally, it ain't half as good as an interactive situation (the norm), and the client hardly seems to matter.

240 what? Seeds? Peers? I don't watch Naruto. It might not need your upload, but give it anyway.

P.S: I'm playing around with that Cfosspeed thing. I'm not sure yet, but I think it is working as advertised - I opened up my pure seed connection up to 60kB/s and above. Thanks for the tip, man!

[Benjamin3005]

youre welcome

iam not using it tho

also thx for a friendly post after mine

think i have to work arround with netlimiter then and deleting the 1-3 upload choices from µtorrent options.

and yeah.. iam stuck for another 3 month with 192 kbit *edit* upload *edit*

try netlimiter 0.9b its really neat also, not only in limiting but also to see what program is connected to who.

240 kbyte is my max down. thats what you get when you download naruto.. iam also not watching it tho.

*edit* nope i cant put the upload higher as the result would be a better download who gives me even more lag as the incoming connection needs the ACK´s we spoke about. *edit*

life prosper .

[Firon]

Is that 192kbit upload?