utorrent pro leecher???

[Xaero]

That's exactly what my point is: If you are only "uploading" OR - "you are downloading and have set the scheduler to seed only" your uploads will not be affected.

But when downloading a torrent if you cap the download speed the upload speed would come down to roughly the same speed as you download cap. To see this happen you have to make sure that your ISP upload limit is higher than the download cap you have set.

To make thing clearer:

- My connection 256kbps up and 256kbps down (32KB/s max)

- I am downloading a torrent at an avg speed of 30KB/s and uploading at 30KB/s simultaneously.

- Now I cap the download to 10KB/s so that I can speed up the web pages loading in the browser> after about a minute or so the upload starts to hover around 10kB/s mark.

- So I cap the download to 1KB/s to see what happens to upload> Uploads come down to about 1KB/s, almost zero

- When the download still going I turn on the scheduler and put seed only mode> now the same torrent which I was downloading (still incomplete), uploads about 30KB/s and download is not happening (in seed only mode download cap doesn't make any difference)

- with the download cap still at 1KB/s and upload uncapped, I turn off the scheduler and the upload speed comes down to 1KB/s

- Now I try it the other way round, downloads uncapped and uploads at 1KB/s> The same torrent downloads at 30KB/s and the upload is at 1KB/s

- If I have two torrents running and set the global download cap at 5KB/s the global uploads would come down to 5KB/s

Here wherever I have mentioned 1KB/s you could set it to anywhere between you max ISP limit to 1KB/s and you will see the same behaviour. Throughout the experiment I am using the same torrent. I have tried this with other torrents as well which makes me believe that this is not torrent specific. You may see different results if you have a high speed connection since I haven't tested it myselft I can't comment on it. I have set a cap of 30 connections per torrent which I feel is enough since it saturates my connection in both directions. Uploads slots are 3 with use additional slots checked.

Looking at this behaviour I think that this bandwith throttling happens in the client. Any theories?

[Switeck]

I already told you that it's an artifact of how TCP networking works.

You'd have to reinvent the wheel (how the internet works) to fix that.

The SYN-ACK process gets short-circuited because not all the reply packets get through as they should.

Seed-only mode in scheduler is a better way to override download speed causing lag at least short-term.

Does things get any better when you turn off uTorrent's extra features and reduce total connections to 10?

[Xaero]

I don' have any extra features enabled. I just wanted to bring this to your notice. It's not a big issue. It's alright.

[Switeck]

The graph at this post:

http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?pid=371098#p371098

...sums up the problems you describe.

Only time I have similar issues is when I hit over 400 KB/sec down, which isn't very often due to low seed-to-peer ratio (or plain low seeds/peers period) on the torrents I go after.

[Xaero]

I don't that's my problem. What he says is that when he starts downloading his uploads come down, my issue is when the download slows down the upload slows down.

The reason I am asking is because usually what I have noticed is that when there are more leechers and less seeds the download is low but by increasing the upload the download rate increases. I just want to make sure that this issue doesn't slow down my downloads.

Because some torrents with may seeds download slowly. The upload speed is low because there are not many leechers which is ok but the download speed is also low even though there are many seeds. Besides, you have the problem when you are over 400KB/s and the other guy has a 20/5MBps connection, but I am downloading at 30KB/s

[Sawyer22]

I have also noticed a similar wired behaviour when capping the download speed, that the upload speed dropped to virtually the same speed I capped the download or 50%. I did try to reproduce it with some massive torrents right now and couldn't reproduce anything other then what Switech already said would happen and is the normal behaviour of TCP/IP protocol.

But then I kept messing around and came to a different thing "calc.overhead = enabled" and a whole new story surfaced. Now capping download to any number you pick, any big number, lets say 500kB/s and the download will start dropping big because you limit the calc.overhead with it like on this next picture.

I think the drop of upload is also dependant on the number of peers connecting. For example on the above picture. I just maxed the second torrent to my full upload speed. Then capped my upload to 25kB/s and the upload dropped to under 1MByte/s. Here I have calc overhead disabled now. So it wont effect the results. Now the torrent is uploading slow again. Now to get the my max upload speed on the 50kB/s cap. I need to open the other 3 torrents I'm seeding.

[Xaero]

doens't seem to make any difference to me. its the same whether the overhead is set to true or false.

[Sawyer22]

hm. Well I found also out that it has somehting to do with the strenght of seed to peer ratio. When I had 200+ Seed and only around 25 peers. I locked my download to 25 or so and my upload dropped big time and I couldnt get it back with the same torrent on that limit. So I had to introduce another 80 peers from other torrents so it climbed up again.

Right now I'm also testing Azerus in superseed mode and I dont know boy. It works 18x times better already then utorrent. With this I mean it maxed my upload what I couldn't archive in utorrent at no time in superseed mode.

EDIT: this must be the way utorrent is made since it does not happen in Vuze.

[Switeck]

uTorrent's initial seeding mode is not made with maxing upload speed in mind...it's made to absolutely minimize upload speed but still get out complete pieces. Sadly, this means it WAITS till it sees copies of the pieces it's uploaded on other peers before it will upload anything else.

I don't like the way it works, and the few times I used it I had to increase upload slots to 3 or more to get even semi-decent results.

[Sawyer22]

Yeah I understand this. But maybe a second mode would come in handy. Like send 2,3,4 pices and when still no reply from at last one of the pices, shoot the peer.

I had to limit ones leecher IP right now with net limiter, who is for some reason demanding the most from me but only leeching selected epizodes from the whole torrent. Why utorrent grands him that is beyond my understanding. Maybe cuz its another ISP in my country so the hops are very short? He does not share anything cuz when I turn on inital seeding. He never gets anything from my client and the pices he got almost no other peer has lol.

[Switeck]

The problem with those who are trying hard to share is if they set their upload TOO high they can't DOWNLOAD fast from you...because their connection's overloaded due to their upload.

A leecher on the other hand, with his upload set to 10 KB/sec or less, has PLENTY spare bandwidth to download at ridiculous speeds from you. And as you've seen...does!

So much for BitTorrent's Tit-For-Tat!

How to strengthen that in a useful manner...is a MAJOR question that almost nobody seems capable of answering.

My guess is FAST extensions might help at least in a minor way, forcing a peer who wants to "download quickly" to only be able to download quickly a very limited number of "rare" pieces (as far as the seed knows.) Sequential downloaders which destroy torrent swarms almost as fast as leechers won't get pieces out of order, and so will be stuck on "slow" pieces. Leechers will be able to grab fast, but only limited pieces fast as well...and may eventually share them to others. Even "weak" sequential downloading of first+last piece of the torrent would be reduced, thus creating more availability of pieces.

[Xaero]

you've got some fantastic ideas there. removing the cap on downloads for low upload speeds is questionable. I agree when someone says that a feature can't be added because utorrent would become bloatware or the feature would not be of much use. However removing something that was already there and saying we need something better to avoid leeching and removing the caps is something I don't understand.

I suppose you've heard of Bittheif.

[Switeck]

I am in no way responsible for the removal of "Download Limited", wouldn't have been my choice were I able. It seemed more important to cater to the leechers' needs instead of what was best for BitTorrent swarms. But the bitter truth is if someone wants to cheat the BitTorrent system, they can. So if not uTorrent...some alternate program that gives better results and to heck with what it does to others gets used.

I am aware of leeching clients.

[Xaero]

I am in no way responsible for the removal of "Download Limited", wouldn't have been my choice were I able

Never did say you were responsible for anything. Sorry if I was not being clear.

I'm not well versed with superseed mode although the initial seeding in utorrent makes perfect sense. But it only works when you are seeding the torrent for the first time. if you are reseeding it for 1 peer then you'll have a problem. So I agree with sawyer, you will need another mode for superseed. But initial seeding is very well designed and implemented.

[Switeck]

A serious bug was found in initial seeding:

http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=52234

http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=52253

...supposedly fixed in the next v1.9 alpha release.