Webseeds entered in Properties do not start

[Timwi]

It seems that entering webseed URLs in the Properties window is not enough. I need to stop and start the torrent before µTorrent will use the webseeds. They should be used immediately as I press "OK" in the Properties dialog.

[Ultima]

Assuming µTorrent doesn't already attempt a connection to the webseed eventually within the same session (without stopping/starting), then I agree that µTorrent needs to allow the newly added webseed to be connected to within that session.

The problem here is that you said "immediately." That would make it way too simple to hammer the webseed. Webseeds are intended to be used as backup seeds, not seeds that everyone should always connect to at all times just because it is a known seed with no choking mechanism.

[Timwi]

Your reasoning doesn't make sense. Whether the webseed starts immediately or later makes no difference to the webserver. It is the same amount of connections and data transfer. There is no "hammering" going on at all.

Additionally, what webseeds are "intended" for is not really up to µTorrent to decide. HTTP servers are perfectly capable of limiting their bandwidth if they need to. For all µTorrent knows, I could just use the webaddress in a download manager and do all the hammering I want. If µTorrent artificially limits its own access to HTTP servers, so much so that just downloading from the HTTP servers directly is faster for me, then BitTorrent has completely lost its purpose.

[Ultima]

No. You once again fail to understand the purpose behind BitTorrent (and its purpose certainly isn't to fulfill your expectations of what you think it ought to be). It's used to offload bandwidth from seeders. If everyone in the swarm hits the server, each asking for a piece each time, it'll increase server load tremendously. If µTorrent connects immediately on OK, then anyone who wasn't already using the webseed will simply check the properties, hit OK, and force µTorrent to connect to the webseed, every time they get disconnected for each piece they receive. If that's not forced hammering like how forced trackers announces can be if implemented incorrectly, then I don't know what is.

HTTP seeds are for insurance that there will be at least one peer in the swarm that has the piece that you need, not just for use as some quick mirror. If you want to download straight off the HTTP server without treating it like a seed (it's a webseed), then by all means, do that with a normal HTTP downloader. BitTorrent isn't a one-size-fits-all protocol, and has never been billed as such. No one is forcing you to use BitTorrent for everything.

Either way, persistent use of a webseed throughout the torrenting session has been rejected before. If anything, µTorrent will more likely be taking a page out of BitTorrent DNA (which hits webseeds less often than even µTorrent), thus moving in a direction opposite to what you seem to want.

[Timwi]

> If everyone in the swarm hits the server, each asking for a piece each time, it'll increase server load tremendously.

I think there are two misunderstandings here. One is that you seem to think that everyone in the swarm uses the same webseed, or indeed any webseed at all. This is not the case. If I'm adding a webseed in the Properties dialog, I expect that this only affects me. The second thing is that you think server load is significantly greater just because µTorrent loads individual pieces at a time instead of larger chunks like a download manager would. This method does increase the load very slightly, but it is not significant. The server load is no greater than it would be for the same number of users to fire up a download manager.

> If µTorrent connects immediately on OK, then anyone who wasn't already using the webseed [...]

You seem to be implying that if I add a webseed URL in the Properties dialog, then everyone else in the swarm also gets it added to their torrents? Is this the case? If that is the case, then surely that is the cause of the hammering, not starting the HTTP connection.

[Ultima]

Not currently, but sharing of webseeds through PEX/DHT is already on a "potential todo" list. As well, just because you're adding a new webseed to the list yourself doesn't mean there aren't already webseeds in the torrent; they can be embedded in the .torrent file. What do you do about users who repeatedly remove/readd such webseeds just to cause µTorrent to think a new webseed is being added (and hence, force a connection)? (And the only reason I bring up repeated adds/removals/OKs is because as I mentioned earlier, persistent downloading isn't going to happen)

[Timwi]

I don't understand - from my experience µTorrent does download persistently. Maybe you mean something else by it than I think?`

[Ultima]

That's the point: it isn't persistent, and won't be persistent. Given that, what's the point of having it start immediately on add/OK rather than letting it treat the webseed as any other peer by waiting and picking randomly and/or in a round-robin method? The latter is what it should be doing, and if it isn't already doing so until you restart the torrent, then

Assuming µTorrent doesn't already attempt a connection to the webseed eventually within the same session (without stopping/starting), then I agree that µTorrent needs to allow the newly added webseed to be connected to within that session.