[uTorrent 1.4] Internal (Hidden?) download cap based on upload?

[Borg]

Hello.

Reading forums here, I found some post about hidden download cap if you upload rate is

1-5KB/s. Why this was implemented?

Isnt that private tracker problem to KILL leechers based on their ratio?

Also, torrent is not unly used for illegal content distribution. Some sites (OpenOffice)

uses it to distributed their content to users. Not everyone at home have FAT 2Mbit line

for his use only. We have seeders (Uni Campus networks, ISPs, etc), and we have regular

users that just want to download sometimes reducing the load for main site.

Question to developers:

Could you please guys explain that to us, and throw some light on that issue?

Regards,

Borg

[Nefarious]

is not hidden, it has been explained in the chnagelog for the new version, set ur upload to 6kB/s (not only 2mbit lines can do that) and u will have no problem at all

just so u know, the next version of utorrent will raise the download cap to 6 instead of 3, that should be enought as only very low connections like xxx/64 would be affected, and if u have a 1mbit/64kbps is not utorrent's fault it is your ISP, either change ISP or try to get ur stuff from somewhere else.

the cap is made so leechers will get hurt

[Firon]

It's not hidden, it shows it in the status bar (Download Limited). And look, apart from the 256/64 and slower users (which we've adjusted the cap for, in the next beta), there's not a lot of people who actually need a 5 KB/s or lower upload cap for any legitimate reason. The cap was designed in mind to not harm dial-up and ISDN, but it needed an adjustment to not harm the slow ADSL users, but still screw leechers.

[fict0n]

It's not hidden, it shows it in the status bar (Download Limited).

I don't think you could have made that any more vague or secretive. Your download is limited with every connection you make anywhere on the internet, you really believe that was a legitimate warning to even an advanced user?

there's not a lot of people who actually need a 5 KB/s or lower upload cap for any legitimate reason.

And for those people: DON'T USE UTORRENT, THE DEVELOPERS HATE YOU AND YOU'RE A LEECH.

Well done, guys, you've really outdone yourselves. I'm going back to Azureus. I always knew the developers own opinions would eventually come out in the code and be the trouble, just from the way you respond to forum posts.

Just another charlatan torrent client with hidden motives and childish coders.

[boo]

The developer has no hidden motive and the cap to stop leechers isn't childish.

I think that you are a leecher and trying to throw dirt on the anti-leecher cap.

[chaosblade]

the new x6 cap is pretty damn fair for all users who are not leechers. Dialup and ISDN arent hurt by the cap anyway since they cant physically download fast enough to pass the limit anyway. The only problem was the minimum bare broadband, 256/64 - which is now taken care of - Since they can upload at 5kB/s. 5 * 6 = 30kB/s, which is almost 256kbits. They lose a mere 2kB/s download at best, if at all, when you consider no one gets the exact full speed of his line anyway.

[1c3d0g]

...

Just another charlatan torrent client with hidden motives and childish coders.

Goodbye. Careful now, your PC may start smoking from the back again...

[chaosblade]

I somehow missed his comment. Im generally a nice person, and i dont try to insult or anger people.. But fict0n has got to be one of the more ridicolous people ive met online.

[avatarl]

Well, BC also had a download/upload ratio limit for Up below 10, I don't see people complaining about that. It is fair enough. That guy's probably a conscious leecher. Shame shame...

[z00z0]

@Firon:

Could it be added to the status bar that: "Download limited to x kB"? x = upload cap * 5.

[Nefarious]

wouldnt be bad at all

[Druidor]

Always thought that setting your ul speed below 6 on Torrent programs would affect your dl speeds as I heard somewhere that this was a specof the torrent protocol.

May be wrong

If you set you speeds that low in the first place you know you will not seed back what you take, so to right you should be penalised for activly leeching off those that are willing to play by the rules.

[redrum]

I don't like fict0n's behaviour in the forum but I must you also have to understand how people use their bandwidth in different ways than other . Someone is hosting a server, shares cards, uses p2p etc etc. Most important is that MANY trackers are now private and they keep ratios . If someone wants to seed will seed .If someone HAS to seed he WILL seed . Now vice versa : if someone DOESN'T want to seed he WON"T seed. Either by stopping the torrent after completition or whatever. So since there is software that a leecher can use with no cap HE WILL ALWAYS go back to it. But there is people that maybe they want to download fast but they need their upload for many reasons. With such a light program as utorrent it's amazing how many files you may keep seeding. So someone wants for instance to see a movie in two hours but will seed it for three days in 1/15 upload of download speed. Now such a guy that up to now loves utorrent will have to say bye bye to it. The point is that a leecher will just change client , but a "good" user with weird use of bandwidth will be left out without a reason. That's why I must agree with fict0n that this time the developer's opinion and perception is effecting the coding in negative way since they cannot visionize the side effect of this capping . Just try to think how different people use their bandwidth and for what...then you will get the point ...

[sureshot]

i have no trouble with this program. i use to use bit tornado. now i'm on utorrent. and i like it. especially how it creates a seed for you... for monthes i never understood how to seed. but here you don't have to do anything, just connect and u are seeding great program speeds have been good.. been downloading around 80kb/s and the same speed is for my upload aswell. so there is really no need to cap your uploads.. use speed guide it gives you best setting for your connection, thats good for people who are not firmiliar with what settings to use. also you have to try other ports and find one that will help you download and upload stuff at full speeds. maybe your connection will only givr you 30 k/s ... 6k/s upload is a disgrace to torrents, use that for dial up.. not hi speed internet. better bandwith you give out the better you get. cheers

[redrum]

and by the way in the begining someon said " and if u have a 1mbit/64kbps is not utorrent's fault it is your ISP, either change ISP or try to get ur stuff from somewhere else." ... well not everyone leaves in UK , Germany,US ,Sweden etc. where with 10 euros you get T1 connection . So this ISP thing is totally silly . Come to Greece to check how are things when you pay for 386 kilobits per second adsl 55 euros per month !! And believe there are many ISPs in Europe with 2 mbit D /128 - 256 U connection. don't tell me that you consider anyone to change ISP or download from internet cafe because utorrent upgraded to 1.4 !! Irrational logic of lunacy !!

[chaosblade]

In israel most broadband packs are with 96-128 upload rates. I can upload higher then 6kB/s without feeling any slowdowns in any other internet activity. Even with 64kbits you can still upload at pretty reasonable speeds.

The cap is entirely fair to anyone who wants to share. The fact he wants to do so with 70 diff. programs all at once is HIS problem, Not the program's.

[oxygenuk]

hi people i dont really like this feature but i wanna get something straight?

whatever my download speed limit is set to (eg. 0) and for instance my upload is set to 10kbs, will my download speed be downsized at all? if it isnt what is the minimum upload speed i must go past until my download gets limited and at what speed does the download get limited to when you pass the upload limit meter by 1kbs for instance

thanks

[Firon]

It only applies when you set your upload cap to 1-5KiB/s, nothing more.

[oxygenuk]

ok thanks for clearing tht up 4 me

[Switeck]

Speaking of BitTornado, it doesn't even allow you to set upload speeds BELOW 3 KB/sec.

µTorrent just caps your download if you do.

Yet somehow µTorrent is "more unfair" by the logic used here?

Each upload slot needs to get at least 1 KB/sec to satisfy the BitTorrent protocol's standards.

But below 6 KB/sec upload speed, that means you cannot have more than 5 total upload slots -- either 2 torrents with 2 upload slots each or 1 torrent with up to 5 upload slots.

Problem is, some people try to download many torrents at once -- because they can still get some download speed from each, even though they are returning nothing or next-to-nothing on each of them. The download limiter means they cannot leech-to-death so many torrents at once.

A download limiter seems a small price to pay for preventing the death of innumerable torrents and many torrent sites.

...or even the death of BitTorrent!

[chaosblade]

Well said.

[redrum]

It seems that people with luxirious adsl connection forget the ones with entry adsl speed . Let me say this again , if noone understand it means that you just hook with fast speed adsl and you pretend the good guys here. With a 12 kb MAX UPLOAD BY ISP means you get an optimum 10 KB . From this 10 KB if you give 6 KB to torrent YOU CANNOT even surf . Make it a upload/download ratio cap and not just min. 5 kb and then the system is fair. So cut the crap and accept that you talk about how fair it is to have slowest speed limit in the highway while you drive a Lotus and others drive a twenty year old Yugo. Make the client 0.5 bandwidth ratio cap and let's see how many of you people will start naggin about it , okey ? Me I don't care as I have 2 different connections (one for surfing/ downloading) and other for hosting a forum. But MANY friends that I suggested them utorrent are now total against it since it just fucks people with slow adsl connection. Noone of you bothered to answer what I was talking so it seems that forum here is not about debate but about which side are you on ( if you are not with us you are against us ) and I hate this policy. My point will be washed away in here but the fact is that utorrent will be less popular because developers kicked out european low bandwidth/ private tracker users . Over and out .

[redrum]

A download limiter seems a small price to pay for preventing the death of innumerable torrents and many torrent sites.

...or even the death of BitTorrent!

Honestly I don't care what the buzz with the software cap. Nowdays the 80% of serious trackers have ratios . And this was the logic way ofcourse. If someone has a 3000/256 and he just uploads 6 kb and dowloads with 280 how come this is not death of Bittorrent. But the tracker makes the job done and says you asshole , you are a leecher ...your ratio sucks so get the hell out and never come back. Utorrent doesn't help there does it ?

Let me put this the other way : What is more logical ... The road sign and police patrol to prevent you from passing the speed limit or the car itself ? Ehhh ?

[Switeck]

No, you misunderstood me. Below about 6 KB/sec there are problems with the BitTorrent protocol. If you have too many upload slots and/or too many torrents running, you can't be following the protocol spec. In short, you're cheating. The download limiter just prevents that cheating from hurting too many people at once.

If you're into the 'private tracker' scene, fine...but BitTorrent has to survive on PUBLIC servers too, where there is no expectation of ratios and even clients like BitComet never get banned.

For the 3000/256 example, uploading at 6 KB/sec and download at up to 280 KB/sec...that's better than downloading at up to 280 KB/sec and uploading at only 1 KB/sec.

You will soon have both police patrols and speed governers in almost all new cars. But that's off-topic.

The latest betas allow you to download at 6 TIMES your upload speed. So if you limit uploads to 4 KB/sec, you can still download up to 24 KB/sec. That'd take roughly 220 kilobits/sec download bandwidth, the better part of a slow ADSL line. If uploading at 5 KB/sec, you could download up to 30 KB/sec. That's enough to saturate a 256 kilobit/sec download bandwidth line. So the slow/budget ADSL lines are in fact hurt very little by the cap.

Is a major problem people having with this limiter not only that their downloads are slower, but their torrents are also failing?

[Firon]

redrum: plenty of people in Israel using µTorrent that have 96kbit upload and can upload at 6KB/s just fine.