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Simon Morris

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I had to rebuild my system so I had to re-install uTorrent. I noticed the Ask.com toolbar option and I unchecked it (I hate this thing and I'm always careful about not installing these things.

OK we're fine up to this part. After a reboot I go into IE (certain legacy apps will not work properly in FF or Chrome) and no issues there. Then I fire up FF 3.5 and WTF? I see the Ask toolbar there. (taking screenshot now). I then looked in my add remove and nothing listed under ask.com. Looked at the add/remove list and nothing that made me even think it was related to ask.com.

ADDREM.PNG

asksucks.PNG

Going to remove uTorrent and see if ask.com goes away. Will post after this

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1. I take it to mean that they are TRYING to KEEP uTorrent free.

2. I take it to mean that people (like me) probably don't ever donate even though we download and use it and demand that they coddle us and help us and support us for this free product that does take their time, genius, and MONEY to continue developing and SUPPORTING.

3. I take it to mean that they tried their best to choose an optional addon that would be the least intrusive and the most like their own product: something people can use to do something without having anyone looking over their shoulders (ISPs and The Man are uncontrollable variables).

4. I take it to mean that an optional addon is not a permanent optional addon and may be replaced or not replaced by any other approved revenue source, as a browser toolbar addon, or something else entirely, in the future after due consideration, thus there is no need to include it in the build release, as it is NOT PART OF THE BUILD (d'oh).

If you don't like it, maybe some private donations are in order. I don't intend to donate because I am poor. I will, instead, opt not to add the addon if I don't want it, simple as that. Don't like it? Pay for your torrent manager instead. Sounds like a lot of ingrates to me.

<munched your support question. post a troubleshooting thread - Admins>

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  • 4 weeks later...

You must be joking when you say optional, since it's a forced installation.

Yes, you can chose for it not to be installed. But it's installed anyway!!!!!!!!!

Completely unacceptable!

Don't come with idiotic remarks such as it's free, and you can just either use another product, or donate money so they don't need to do it!

The problem is not the optional, and even default installation of ask.com. The problem is that they LIE about it, and install it even when you choose for it not to be installed!

Atlantis wrote: "I will, instead, opt not to add the addon if I don't want it, simple as that."

Did you read any of the posts you answered to? The problem is that it's NOT that simple. Even if you opt out, it will STILL be installed. THAT is the problem!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Was actually searching for something else and came across this thread so decided to throw in my two cents.

1. Although I certainly do not like search toolbars, I certainly understand the need for revenue. I personally chose this time to opt-out. If this was open source, I would probably contribute a bug fix or two, but moot point.

2. I personally haven't dealt with Ask.com toolbar, but I have found previous vendor's toolbars to be quite invasive. They take up (for me) valuable screen space, some have privacy issues, and some affect the performance and/or operation of my system. Last item usually only affecting the browser itself, but I have seen exceptions. If I had a better suggestion, I would offer, but I haven't put any significant thought into it.

3. I prefer opt-in systems, but if opt-out is the choice method then perhaps emboldening the item under question might be a prudent option. I am careful about what I put on my system, many are not.

*** Side note on previous, maybe its my higher resolution of my monitor, if I think about it when I get access to a different system I'll check, but the check boxes for the install options would be unreadable due to size and/or font to other members of my house hold. The font size on this forum is readable, the forum looks like about 1em (approx12pt) the check boxes I saw in the installer looked to be about half that, maybe 7pt or so (guessitmations on both, looked like a sans-serif font probably Arial since I'm running Windows). If I do remember, I'll try to get a screenshot next time I need to install (assuming that I'm not either delusional or if it was a problem that it got fixed in the mean time).

4. I am happy that utorrent itself does NOT have any built in adware.

/* Unrelated to search bar, but comment left anyway

I would also mention that I've been relatively happy with the product. The WebUI is convenient and seems to work well. I find it a shame that SSL support isn't included, but I imagine its a size/license/import thing and I use stunnel for other stuff anyways so no biggie. I would like to see some way for running it as windows service (couldn't find a native way in FAQ or with my digging so far in forums [probably doesn't exist], currently investigating a wrapper rig and the security implications related) so that I won't need to be logged in (running only one copy of torrent software on network is preferred as it simplifies QoS and routers settings and everyone who torrents here is familiar with the interface). */

Thanks for the product and the hard work :-)

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We've had a couple of problems with computers suddenly not booting anymore with the error message "Invalid BOOT.INI file" and a reference to the hal.dll file being missing or corrupt. After some hours of troubleshooting it turns out it's all thanks to µTorrent and the Ask Toolbar. For some reason the Ask toolbar removes the boot.ini file!!

The solution is to boot from a live CD, restore the boot.ini file, restart into Windows and uninstall the Ask Toolbar and then install a more serious type of Bittorrent manager than one that comes with spyware.

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"After some hours of troubleshooting it turns out it's all thanks to µTorrent and the Ask Toolbar. For some reason the Ask toolbar removes the boot.ini file!!"

I can only wonder if that's totally unrelated...but without more details on what uTorrent version (and Ask version if known) does that.

As much as I'd like to see Ask GONE, it seems it's not an unheard of problem...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ask.com_toolbar#Toolbar

http://forum.applian.com//showthread.php?s=7a3af759fbd572d9e7455ee6014291ff&t=2123&page=2

http://www.theeldergeek.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php?t37657.html

http://forums.techarena.in/windows-xp-support/1192135.htm

http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/InternetExplorer/thread/c9b08aac-4bef-4dc4-afb0-e096302b4728

http://www.geekstogo.com/forum/Boot-ini-repeatedly-deleted-t239091.html

http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/index.php/2009/06/13/they-outdid-themselves

This makes finding details even MORE important!

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[08:25:27] <&Ultima> Firon: see http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?pid=427944#p427944 and http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/index.php/2009/06/13/they-outdid-themselves

[08:25:58] <&Ultima> ask.com + IE8 = unbootable Windows

I'd heard about the hal.dll and boot.ini issue with IE8 a while ago on the same blog post I passed to Firon, but after visiting it again today, the author (and many of the commenters) indicated that it is apparently a conflict between IE8 and the Ask.com toolbar. It has nothing to do with manually modifying the boot.ini (I seriously doubt that many users would do that).

Seemingly very real bug on Ask.com's end indeed, as the correlation is extremely high.

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Thank you all for your concern, I'm glad this is taken seriously. In the second link that Switeck linked to someone from Applian says that "this should have been fixed with the latest version". In some of the other links people have tracked the problem down to the ASKupgrade service. It seems that this service is not installed when I try to reproduce the problem now by installing the current version of µTorrent, so maybe they fixed the problem by removing the service and in that case it looks like µTorrent now comes with the fixed version...?

I can't be sure what version or source the users used when they installed µTorrent... There is a slim chance that the Ask toolbar payload was delivered by an alternate software, but the systems looked pretty much like I installed them apart from µTorrent being present. And since you are a confessed sinner...

It looks like there is a big chance that more systems will go down due to the Ask toolbar so "hopefully" I will be able to track down more details next time.

For your reference the systems are Windows XP SP3 and yes IE8 is installed too. No anti-virus or firewall installed.

Thanks all for your support.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

bundling non-utorrent software in utorrent [install] is unacceptable from both security- and privacy perspectives. OpenCandy and similar nefarious ilk will not be tolerated. Sun java- and adobe flash is falling under disfavor for similar wickedness.

not so easy for people to suggest how one could go about earning money

Hardly. There are plenty of non-malware approaches to profitability, but it might be a hard pill to swallow in a community with the understanding that your product had been destined to be freeware -- a developer and not community choice. This is the same argument put to the irrational who believe adblocking is stealing: charge. Either charge for your product or not. Further either break your product into a freeware edition and a commercial version or not.

Option 1

offer both "utorrent freeware AND devoid of malware" AND "utorrent pro". The latter product will be at the cutting edge of the development cycle, whereas the former will eventually receive features and will be maintained against bugginess. Those who believe your product is worthy of their investment will purchase pro; those not will not. In the former malware [should] obviously not include any code not essential to utorrent: "optional" installs are PATENTLY not essential to utorrent by construction!

option 1 B

Allow people to profit from recommending pro to friends. Tread carefully as some will be want to engage in spamming; punish them harshly (barred from future upgrades,public humiliation, etc). Consider limiting referral bounties to the price of the pro edition itself.

option 1 C

Bounties for a pro user for inspiring others to donate to the project.

option 2

abandon the freeware ideology and sell only utorrent pro. This, however, will alienate most of your followers so be absolutely certain you have a fantastic package before you travel this path.

option 3

A slight variation of your current malware bundling is to offer TWO versions of your current product installer. One version however you want, and the other entirely devoid of non-utorrent code. Allow the market to decide: those not bothered by toolbars will not seek out the other download link. Include a link to the alternate download in your FAQ and text of EULA in the installation wrapper.

Q&A

dev "What's to stop people from not purchasing pro and only downloading the freeware?"

A: "that would be the nature of the free market. If and only if you produce a product that meets the needs of a clamoring public, implicitly that caters to their respective feature requests, it will sell."

A2: "Those familiar with the free market even a percentage of dullards will realize that should the developers not be able to eat and pay for shelter they will seek other employment -- utorrent will die"

dev: "How can I make utorrent pro more appealing?"

A: "there are literally hundreds of quashed feature requests in your forum. Responsiveness to community desire is one way to set yourself apart from other clients... the faster the better. You are on the clock now. I wager a plugin infrastructure exclusive to utorrent pro would draw in sales."

A2 "signed plugins would ensure a utorrent profit stream. This would allow others to be compensated for their talent as you seek now, but also compensate you and spur utorrent pro sales"

* keep in mind that draconian copy protection model will disincline many to purchase the pro edition. I would have very low tolerance for poorly crafted software of that nature; adobe licensing while not invasive as ring0 drivers inflicted by game developers in past is a huge performance detractor. Respect the sanctity of the users' systems and they will respect you.

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  • 1 month later...

With so many good free clients out there I'd probably be unwilling to pay for µTorrent pro.

The optional toolbar in µTorrent is easily circumvented at install by unticking a few boxes. After that it will not bother you again because auto-updates don't ask you again. In fact I never even knew about the toolbar until I read about it here on the forums weeks later.

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I didn't know about the ask.com toolbar either, as I have uTorrent ran as a service (that is my thread referenced earlier, thanks <3 ), and it never once popped up to ask me.

Even on a new install about 2-3 weeks ago, it never asked me to install it either, I had 0 clue about it until I came across this thread today.

For the complainers about the toolbar:

There's been a ton of freeware programs lately that ask you to install the toolbar, it's not that hard to opt-out, I don't see why people are crying over it, it's clicking a freakin mouse button a few times extra! Unless it aggravates your carpal tunnel syndrome .... pffft.

If you were so click happy to just get something installed and just clicked next next next next next without reading, then it's your OWN fault. You need to ALWAYS read what the installer is doing (I bet most of the complainers don't bother reading the EULA either ... they can be some real eye openers), if for no other reason then for your OWN good and sanity about what's going on with YOUR computer.

@Simon - I wish I had some constructive suggestions on how to earn more revenue. I used to use toolbars for the easy search feature, but now that it's a standard feature in web browsers, toolbars are just about useless (to me at least) now, unless you use services from the toolbar provider. Good luck in your endeavor to make everyone happy (employees and end users). I truly wish you guys the best.

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  • 3 months later...

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