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Scheduler idea; Add seeding only

siro

By siro
in Feature Requests

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siro Newbie

siro

Posted
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Hi, I'm using your great program just for a few days and am already nagging my friends to get rid of their lazy a*s Azureus. Using µtorrent is almost fun. But still, I think there's some stuff to improve. First thing I noticed is that you limit download speeds if users set severe upload caps. I understand that and think it's a perfectly sound idea. But I can't comprehend why upload speed is capped if the user has set a low max download speed. Just doesn't make sense. Eg if I've got 2 torrents open and set them to something like 5k max dl speed, I won't be upping with anything more than ~20kb. But I'd like to up with like 600. A cap in that way doesn't make sense, does it?

Second and more importantly, I'd like a fourth setting in the scheduler beside 'Full Speed', 'Limited' and 'Turn off', which would be seeding only. This should put all files to seed only, independent of being already finished or not. Alternatively add a menu button which sets all files to seed mode.

There is practical use to this. I, for example, have to pay download traffic for all day, but 2-5 at night time, which is of course the time I'm using to dl my stuff. But since I'm a nice file sharer, I'd like to provide to the community with my nice upload speed. This, I can't do right now at all, because as far as I can see, there's no solution for that implented yet (see the two above).

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Firon Advanced Member

Firon

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Yeah, that's why I moved it to todo. :P

Perhaps there should also be an option to make torrents stop downloading in the context menu. select a bunch of downloads, right click and choose said option to make 'em finish up the last pieces and start seeding.

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Inacurate Advanced Member

Inacurate

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Yeah, that's why I moved it to todo. :P

Perhaps there should also be an option to make torrents stop downloading in the context menu. select a bunch of downloads, right click and choose said option to make 'em finish up the last pieces and start seeding.

Quoting you to get your attention, but of course talking about ludde's post here. The topic you closed of mine by the way, has no relation to the name of this topic. :)

Why do upload speeds suffer, when you limit your download?

"other requests coming through" doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I am not a programmer, though I can grasp ideas here and there. Shouldn't download and upload requests be two different things for this very reason?

With the way things work now with µTorrent, how are you supposed to get a decent ratio on a file, while not finishing it super fast, and be able to turn the PC off without getting warned( on certain sites ) for not sharing 1:1 or better?

If I want to download something at 1kB, my upload speed should NOT suffer cause of some background processes going on, or not as the case may be.

Just like if I want to limit my upload to less than 5kB, my download shouldn't be automatically limited, but that is another issue in another thread, and one that doesn't actually effect me, I just don't like it!

Inac

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Switeck Advanced Member

Switeck

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Downloading also uploads.

Uploading also downloads.

To explain, when you are downloading you are in a negotiation process with whom you're downloading from to decide speed, next piece, and whether or not the last piece/s arrived correctly (thus not needing resends). This takes upload bandwidth to tell the other end sending you the file chunks. At very high download speeds, it actually takes significant amounts of upload speed too! At the very least, it takes 1 KB/sec upload speed for every 50 KB/sec of download speed. In practice, it probable takes closer to 1 KB/sec upload speed for every 20 KB/sec of download speed. This is because µTorrent is doing more than simple HTTP file transfers and also µTorrent is trying to maintain dozens if not hundreds of connections at once. A simple HTTP file transfer is usually only 1 ip-to-ip connection, not "global max connections=200" or more!

Even an "idle" TCP connection between 2 ips requires a tiny "keep alive" packet at least every 15 seconds, or the connection automatically fails and breaks. That costs bandwidth too, though not much individually. 200 "idle" connections might use 1+ KB/sec bandwidth both ways.

Unfortunately, the download and upload limits in µTorrent also limit how fast the opposite can run. If download speed is limited to 1 KB/sec, then ~20 KB/sec is likely the upload speed you'll get.

It might be possible to limit a torrent's download speed to 1 KB/sec and GLOBAL download speed to 10 KB/sec and then upload speeds could hit 200+ KB/sec if the connection permitted.

Going back to the original poster's point, you can't just upload without downloading the replies you get from whoever you're uploading to. The faster you upload, the more replies you get and the more download bandwidth is needed.

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Firon Advanced Member

Firon

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I know, but if you read the top of this thread, it's about the same problem you have.

And uh, to get a decent ratio, you finish it really fast and just seed to 1+ and build up a buffer. :P

In any case, the scheduler will have a "seeding only" option in the next beta

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Inacurate Advanced Member

Inacurate

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And uh, to get a decent ratio, you finish it really fast and just seed to 1+ and build up a buffer. :P

Which isn't always possible to do when you are jumping on a torrent late, and there have been 275 downloads previous to you, 200 seeders, 30 or so leechers left with an average of 300 total downloads. ;)

Why is it, that this is just happening now? What has changed in the past three months to cause this? Cause about three months ago is when I was fortunate enough to not have to worry about rati on a per torrent basis, just my overall. And back then I was downloading about 20% of a torrent at max speed, then capping download to 1kB til my upload amount was well over the total file size to ensure I had a decent ratio.

So what has changed? Something has to have.

Inac

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Inacurate Advanced Member

Inacurate

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How would reducing your download help when you're gonna finish the torrent anyway? In fact, you'd be able to upload to MORE people if you downloaded fast and finished the torrent, because you'd have way more pieces to give out...

It makes sure it takes longer to finish the download. As I stated previously, it allows me to ensure I have a positive ratio prior to finsihing the download 100% I use to do it all the time with earlier µTorrent versions, and before with Shadows BitTornado.

What it really does for me, is allow me to stop the torrent as soon as I finish, or if I am forced to stop seeding due to a power loss, or a reboot of the computer, or I just want to play an online video game without first having to seed to 1:1.

My favorite tracker is a real stickler for seeding things back to at least 1:1 on every torrent. I have no qualms doing that, however as I also said sometimes doing that is impossible if you don't jump

on the torrent within hours of it coming out.

So I do this instead, it means I usually have to wait a a day for the download to complete, but in the mean time if I need to stop sharing for whatever reason, I don't get warned or otherwise have negative impact on things. :)

And you didn't answer my question, what changed to cause this? The spik you see, is me minimizing µTorrent to make a smaller screenshot, why does that happen as well? I can't believe that little amount of effort on the programs part would cause speeds to jump, yet they do.

limited.JPG

A lot of little inconsistencies and what not that have been around since the beginning. Like when you have a paused torrent( s ) or are just seeding, the speed graph still shows data and whatnot.

Inac

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Inacurate Advanced Member

Inacurate

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I don't know what's changed, but you can try using the scheduler's "seed only" option or something once you reach a certain downloaded amount. :P (in the next beta)

Is that even going to be an option for incomplete torrents, or only something that is completed?

And by the sounds of it, since it is associated with the Scheduler, it sounds like it is going to be a global setting..either seed only, or normal ops..what happens if I want to only seed one half done file, while downloading another?

Or what if I want to do it like I have done it for a while now, limiting downloads to 1kB?

Seed only is a great feature, something I was lobbying for a while back, glad to see it is going to be implemented, but it isn't a solution for the other quandries that I have pointed out. :)

Inac

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Inacurate Advanced Member

Inacurate

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Just wanted to make sure this is classified as a problem, and is noticed. :)

Am using B18, and it is still there. ;)

I can watch the torrent doing 400d/37up and as soon as I limit to 20d the upload speed starts to falter, and then settles between 11-37up.

Same thing with using the global download limit, my upload speed goes from a steady 37 to all over the board if I limit it to anything below about 50down??

The seeding only option in the Scheduler however, does appear to work! Though it shows my download is still ranging from 0-7down.

Man I am going to love this feature, heeeheee. Hmmmmm, wonder if it could be expanded with options like "Seed only until %filesize" or seedingtime elapsed!! But that would be to much to hope for, maybe I will put in a feature request and see what happens.

Otherwise, really weird issue you guys got going on here.

Inac

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JohnB Member

JohnB

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First, brilliant program! As a programmer, I'm very impressed with its resource footprint.

I've only used µTorrent for a short while, and I quickly realised the scheduler was incomplete for the exact reason this BBS thread was started.

I was on B413 but downloaded B421 when I saw in the ChangeLog to hold down the Shift key to enable Seeding only. I tried it out immediately, but it doesn't do what I'd like. Let me explain.

At the moment, my ISP has Peak and Offpeak download limits. Like the original poster, I'd like to definitely use the Offpeak time to do most of my downloads, but during Peak times I don't mind uploading what I've already got (even though that will use some Peak download quota). Is that called Seeding even though I don't necessarily have a complete version? Ah well. The point is, if I see a Torrent I want NOW I can override the Scheduler by choosing Force Download on that Torrent without having to disable the Scheduler.

So I set the Scheduler to have those two modes. Unfortunately, with it set like that I can't do ANY downloading during Peak times: it only ever seeds. With this new mode you can't seem to override it.

Or am I missing something?

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Inacurate Advanced Member

Inacurate

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I don't know if this will work, but it's worth a try...

Limit individual torrents to lower download speed but leave global download speed at a high enough value to accept all the upload-related ACKs.

That's the best workaround for the problem I can think of at the moment.

That is actually what I do, and it doesn't work, thanks though. :)

Inac

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JohnB Member

JohnB

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the seeding-only thing should be working fine now, and Force Start bypasses the seed-only mode

Just downloaded 1.4.1 Beta Release 425, and yep, it works fine. Thank you! (I love a responsive developer!)

Now I'll just pop over to Feature Requests...

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Inacurate Advanced Member

Inacurate

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there is one thing that i would like.

when i say seed only in the scheduler, there should a option not to seed the ones i am downloading, only seed the ones that actualy have "seeding" status.

two options: 1-seed anything and 2-seed only the ones in "seeding" status.

Well, in the spirit of what bittorrent is supposed to be about, sharing, there will probably never be such an option with µTorrent.

Your only option will more than likely to be set the max upload at 1kB.

Inac

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sergiorodrigues Advanced Member

sergiorodrigues

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i wasnt really trying NOT to seed as the spirit of bittorrent dictates. :)

the reason i thought about it is that i am in need of seeding to the max the torrents that are already in status of seeding.

and the other downloads that i havent even completed, allways seem to seed more...

of course ive put badwith max, no limits, etc to the seeding ones.

guess the real reason my seeding torrents are not really seeding enough if because there is not really a big need

for them.

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super_nicko Newbie

super_nicko

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I agree with sergiorodrigues above.

When I am downloading, of course I am happy to be uploading and downloading at the same time - that is the nature of bittorrent.

However, with a seed only option, I want to be able to do just that - upload my seeds only. This is due to having a peak/off peak system and wanting to do most/all of my seeding while I'm not downloading. This clears seed slots quicker once I've reached my ratio, allowing more connections for the downloads (and their associated uploads) during my off-peak period.

If there was an option that said that you could download without uploading, I would be against it. This option does not do that.

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