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Max download connections / torrent (or reserve slots for upload)


Boksha

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µTorrent currently lets you limit the maximum amount of upload slots per torrent and the maximum total amount, but I think it'd be useful to have the same thing but for download slots.

Basically, I'm currently in the following situation: I'm seeding three torrents, and downloading one; all torrents have the same ratio of peers and seeds; seeds outnumber peers by about 4 to 1. I have my download and upload limited to 50 and 70 KB/s respectively (for ratio reasons). At first, the downloading torrent downloaded with a steady 50 KB/s but no uploads started at all. Then I noticed for some reason I had both global max connections and max connections per torrent to 100, and the downloading torrent was downloading from 100 different seeds with 0.5 KB/s. After changing max cons per torrent to 50, the seeding torrents started uploading, but the downloading torrent was still only downloading, from 48-50 seeds with 1 KB/s each, (even though if I remove the cap, speed ramps up to 2MB/s with the exact same seeds only now with 40 KB/s each on average, i.e. each seed had a lot of free bandwidth left over) and wasn't uploading at all.

If I could just tell µTorrent to stop connecting to so many seeds to download when it's clearly not necessary, I think I could upload and download on that torrent at the same time (since my already completed torrents with approx the same seed/peer ratio are uploading fine; i.e. other peers do request pieces from me); now I'll have to stop the downloading entirely before I can upload (already tried; it indeed works) simply because the unnecessary download connections seem to clog the whole thing up.

I'm sure the people I'm downloading from aren't happy with me downloading with a lousy 1 KB/s from them either, thus wasting their upload slots.

Alternatively, maybe it'd be easier to have a checkbox to limit download connections to max connections - max uploads?

Or perhaps a more general solution would be to only connect to a few new peers/seeds for download if the download limit's already reached?

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While that does solve the problem of dividing the low download limit over lots of peers, it does nothing for the upload of a downloading torrent. If I disable downloads it'll connect to ~8 peers and upload with ~20KB/s like the other three seeding torrents, but if I stop it completely then let it download again, it just connects to 8 or 9 seeds, downloads at top speed but (mostly) refuses to upload. (that also happens eventually if I don't stop it beforehand)

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It sounds like there's actually multiple issues here...

Are you using uTorrent v1.8.3?

(Supposedly, it's better than earlier versions for making sure each active torrent gets some connections.)

Your upload slots may be set too high for your connection.

Over-seeded torrents are very hard to upload on...especially on private trackers that cannot use Peer Exchange to quickly find other peers. (private trackers = broke-by-design):

http://www.azureuswiki.com/index.php/User:The8472/Private_trackers

If you are firewalled, the problem is so much worse that you can expect to be banned from private trackers.

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Yes, I'm using 1.8.3. (was using 1.8.2 earlier, but upgraded to the latest just in case it made a difference)

From what I can see, the problem isn't in too many upload slots (I don't see how that would explain a lack of upload connections any situation, but especially not only if a torrent is also downloading) and, although the tracker in question is indeed private, the problem doesn't seem to be a simple matter of seeding-saturation either; as soon as I turn the download off, the upload shoots up pretty much instantaneously (which definitely wouldn't happen if there are too many seeds to let me upload at all). In fact I decided to just remove my download limit temporarily and download the final 20% of the torrent in a few minutes and now that it's done, it's uploading just fine.

I don't see any reason it couldn't upload while also downloading except for the max connections already being reached by download connections, and, considering it uploads just fine when I get rid of the download, that's the only explanation I can think of. If that's so, having an option of keeping some connection slots open only for uploading would fix the problem completely.

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I was misunderstanding 1 side of your problem...I thought upload speed was dropping from too many connections not from a LACK of peer connections.

Your situation is odd...you don't want to connect to purely seeds on your downloading torrent/s, because you want to upload to other peers to keep your ratio up.

However if uTorrent DOES connect to only seeds, I'd expect your seeding torrents to upload ok. If that's not the case, you have OTHER problems as well. :(

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Is my situation really that odd? I thought simultaneous down- and uploading was the whole point of the Bittorrent protocol? :-P

Yeah, I know the situation where a person wants to upload while downloading even in a well-seeded torrent is limited to private trackers, but still, I imagine there'll be others with the same problem.

However if uTorrent DOES connect to only seeds, I'd expect your seeding torrents to upload ok.

They do. That's why I think overseeding isn't the (only) problem, and my settings probably aren't at fault either.

I thought upload speed was dropping from too many connections not from a LACK of peer connections.

Well, it is from too many connections, but not from too many upload connections. Basically, when you configure the max connections of a torrent to 50, and configure the max uploads per torrent to 10, you reserve 40 slots for downloading. What I'm suggesting is an option to do the opposite: the ability to (for example) set the max downloads per torrent to 40 (of a total of 50), so 10 slots are reserved for uploading.

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Basically, when you configure the max connections of a torrent to 50, and configure the max uploads per torrent to 10, you reserve 40 slots for downloading.

No such reservation actually happens. The other 40 slots aren't actually reserved for anything specific.

Individual connections can be used for both uploading and downloading at the same time.

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Hmm. Well anyway, if all 50 connections are with seeds that aren't downloading anything, you won't be uploading. That's the situation I'd like to be able to avoid.

...but what's the point of setting max upload connections per torrent to any value if the other connections can be used for uploading as well?

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Yes. Now what I'd like is for µTorrent, while I'm downloading, to stop connecting to seeds after I'm already connected with enough of them (say, 40 of a total of 50 max connections), so I can also connect to some peers that might request pieces from me. That currently only happens if I'm a seed myself (because, like you said, seeds don't connect to other seeds) or manually stop my download (also effectively turning me into an incomplete seed) but I want it to happen while I'm downloading.

So is this feature already in µTorrent? If not, that is what I'm requesting.

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Yes, overseeding is a problem and this suggestion won't make it disappear. That doesn't mean it won't improve the problem a bit by letting people upload while they're downloading right? Like I already said uploading works totally fine (i.e. at the max of my connection) if I'm not constantly connecting to 50 seeds.

Just because a problem can't be solved doesn't mean it can't be improved. And if you can upload normally, what's the problem?

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I don't understand...are you saying when you connect to 50 seeds that even your OTHER torrents quit uploading?

Er, I wasn't exactly clear there, sorry. Only the torrent that's connected with 50 seeds stops uploading. The other torrents are fine.

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I know that's how things are supposed to work, but on a private tracker sometimes you just wish to upload even if it's not really necessary for the swarm. As I see it, the only problem with overseeding is that not everybody gets the same chance to upload, and this would slightly alleviate that problem by letting people upload while they're downloading.

Of course if the µTorrent team isn't interested in private trackers, I can understand (after all, they're not what the Bittorrent protocol was cut out for, even if in practice some of them do work nicely) and like you said the problem's gone after the download is done as well (which can be very fast if there's a lot of seeds anyway)

I still wouldn't mind seeing this idea implemented though. :-P

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This sounds like peer preferencing, which has been shot down as a feature request in the past a few times and a few different ways. In this case, it's literal -- you want uTorrent to prefer to connect to peers instead of seeds...even though seeds are vastly and overwhelmingly the most common members of the torrent swarm.

Suggesting it would be "good" because it might help your private tracker upload/download ratio will not score you any brownie points.

Find a better reason, otherwise this feature request will be trashed.

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I didn't think it would be such a strange idea to be able to upload and download simultaneously regardless of the amount of seeds and peers if it doesn't impact your own download speed and might slightly improve someone elses. Then again, it's not a big deal; feel free to trash it.

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In the event people were on a poisoned torrent where there are 50+ fake seeds that give nothing, many might see all their per-torrent connections tied up with the fake seeds and thus be unable to download/upload anything.

Another possible use might be to increase torrent piece availability. If only connected to seeds, a peer cannot upload...but as I pointed out, when that happens the torrent swarm probably doesn't NEED another peer uploading. :P

These are 2 ok reasons for your idea which is probably why it hasn't been trashed by the other mods. :)

Likewise to prevent seeds tying up lots of peer connections but giving little-to-nothing, my idea is to work on the OTHER side of the equation...

"Seeding Torrent Max connections limit"

http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=47523

The problem is, on private trackers...too many people want to connect to EVERYONE so they don't miss out on their chance to increase their ratio. Private trackers are just so broken!:

http://www.azureuswiki.com/index.php/User:The8472/Private_trackers

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