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Weird upload/download ratio


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My current total ratio is around 1.5 (uploaded 125+ GiB). Time to time I see that some torrents (not all) force me to run with ratio 3+. For example, for current torrent (size 1.4 GiB) at the moment I see that peers currently connected have these upload / download values:

617 MiB / 195 MiB (uTorrent Mac 0.9)

268 MiB / 151 MiB (BitTorrent 6.2)

51.7 MiB / 13.4 MiB (uTorrent 1.8.4)

164 MiB / 11.3 MiB (uTorrent 1.9)

99.7 MiB / 12.0 MiB (Azureus

and so on... And it seem like there is no way to change that ratio. All of the connections have U/D ratio more then 1 (except 3 seeders, of cause, which, by the way, download at about 1.0 KiB/s each or less).

If I limit upload speed - download speed goes down correspondingly. If I set it unlimited - exchange is a bit more agile, but ratio will go to 3 or even more easily...

What's going on here and how to make a fair exchange?

Why some (in this case - majority) clients can download from my uTorrent more then 2 times quicker then they upload to it to me (see above), but my uTorrent can NOT do it?

Other torrents at different times are doing just fine...

I'm running the latest v.1.8.4.

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1. So far I do nothing to change default settings except trying to change upload limit and see the reaction.

2. I do not want to force download from (or limit upload to) specific clients. What I'm care about is Upload / Download ratio my client makes for that particular torrent. Why _all_ of those clients can download from me 3x times more than my client can download from them? Again, all of them...

Do they have different rules to play???

It looks like they surely do and that I think is the problem.

After 18 hours or running this torrent I see that some of them have already finished downloading (they have 100% now) and uTorrent indicates that they still have U/D (looking from my side) 3 or more. They are still connected, but are silent (no download back to my client) or do it with speed like 0.8 - 1.2 KiB. That's pathetic. I know they can do it quicker, much quicker. You may say - they're busy with other clients downloading? No, there is no big pool to deal with -currently: Seeds 2(8), Peers 8(23).

I have two examples of such torrents that exhibit similar behavior.

Should I find out specific tracker and remove it from the list for such torrents?


One more question to post # 2.

>There's no way to force upload to someone who doesn't want it, and your own speeds will suffer if you take uploads away from people who DO want it.

How DO they (_all_ of the peers connected) force my client to upload 3x times more then they download to my client?

Now, question to that particular torrent:

Why should my client upload 4.5 GiB of data _before_ I download 1.5 GiB?

With the rest of torrents I usually get full download first and then seed it up until 1.5 ratio (in some cases considerably more) is achieved. What does make the difference?

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Peers can be running multiple torrents at once...many give out less than 2 KB/sec per upload slot. (What you see as a download from them.)

LOTS of people are on asymmetric lines -- with a LOT more download than upload.

Since you're possibly on a fast line, few other peers can upload back to you as fast as you're giving to them.

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Switeck - I completely agree with you and I know what you mean. I'm running torrents for many years and have a bit of personal experience by now :).

But then, how to explain the numbers showing Uploaded / Downloaded data for all of the connections mentioned in my first post? ALL of the clients (not only mentioned above, but all) have taken more data from my client then they downloaded to it. It's not a accidental coincidence, that's for sure. I'm watching the second torrent (from the same source) that behaviors exactly the same way...

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OK, to check that, I'll stop torrent now and resume it tomorrow.

That will change pool of participants (or at least part of it). I'm confident that I'll get the same result then... (I've seen it before many times).

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Usual upload speed is around 70-80 KiB/S Settings in uTorrent may vary from Automatic to Manual with different speed assigned between 80 and 10. Please let me know what else I have to mention here?

Perhaps, I've set uTorrent wrong. But:

1. Settings are close to defaults (in Advanced sections all are default)

2. How could I make this torrent to force me to upload 4.5 GiB first before I'll finish downloading it (1.5 GiB total)? All other torrent clients connected have positive balance (they all downloaded from me more then I downloaded from them). What settings on my side allow me to do it?

3. Why I watch normal work with other torrents? What makes such torrents (as I mentioned, they are a few of them) special? Particular trackers? Some of my settings are incompatible with torrent settings? What?

> am only speculating you've set uTorrent up wrong.

(Probably over 75% of people do!)

Perhaps. But I think it says more about uTorrent then about my (or those people) settings. :) Don't you agree?


Now, back to test of this particular torrent that I've postponed yesterday. It's running now and at the moment it yields about 30 KiB/s download speed, while keeping close to 80 KiB/s for upload. Which means - with different torrent clients connected I have the same weird download / upload ratio..

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Here is a picture what I'm getting now after restarting the torrent since yesterday.


As you can see _all_ of the connected clients have downloaded from my uTorrent more then uploaded to my uTorrent (except those with 100% - they're seeders). Take a look at the last two columns. "Download" - what I've got from them and "Uploaded" is what they've got from me back. In my first post here I've mentioned more data showing the very same tendency. This torrent is running this way all the time. And, as I've said, it will eventually require for my program to upload around 4.5 GiB of data before I finish downloading 1.5 GiB. Don't you think something its wrong with this picture? Again, at the same time (before resuming the torrent today) I've enjoyed nice exchange within other torrents. No problem at all!

What makes this torrent to behave that strange way?

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>I've said this a lot though, just because they aren't uploading to you, it doesn't mean they aren't uploading at all.

So, the different pool of participants in the same torrent exhibits this problem too?

And why there is a very good correlation between my upload speed and total download speed experiencing with my client? If upload speed is down (for whatever reason) - the download speed follows down immediately... Reaction is quite fast and correlation is pretty obvious (tested multiple times), leading to conclusion that the algorithm managed it is implemented within uTorrent client..


Later today: I'd like to share with you some interesting observation.

Before I resumed for the third time the same troublesome torrent I've compared all trackers assigned to it with other torrents (including one, similar to that one, taken from the same source and producing the very same result earlier). What I found is that some of the torrents contain duplicate trackers. But among 56 analyzed only two have the same duplicates referring to "http://tracker.bittorrent.am/anounce" and those two, as you may guess, exhibited the discussed problem with skewed sharing ratio. So, before the third run - I've removed that duplicate from list of trackers and finished torrent without any problems.

I do not know had it happened by a coincident or not, but the last 10% of downloading this torrent I've got a fair shearing ratio... So, next time you'll see similar behavior - try to remove that particular duplicate tracker from the list. It may help.

Is it a bug in uTorrent or a "feature" I don't know, but I'll certainly watch for that in future...

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Other info to help us sort out the cause of this problem:

Upload slots per torrent, TOTAL upload slots across all active torrents, total number of active downloading and seeding torrents, global connection max, per-torrent connection max, TOTAL connections you have on these problematic torrents...

Lastly, what's the highest stable upload speed in uTorrent?

(assuming "sufficient" fast peers to upload to, probably at least 5 but fewer than 20.)

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* Upload slots per torrent - usually around 6.

* TOTAL upload slots across all active torrents - in this case only one torrent was active. thus, see my answer above.

* number of active downloading and seeding torrents - in this test - just one.

* global connection max - 200

* per-torrent connection max - 15

* TOTAL connections you have on these problematic torrents - it's finished now, but in average it was up to 15 (see the limit above)

* what's the highest stable upload speed in uTorrent - up to 80 KiB/s (usually between 70 and 80)

Please keep in mind - in this test I was running only one torrent all the time.

When I told about strong correlation between upload and download speed I meant this scenario as well:

* if I limit upload speed to 10 KiB/s, then download speed goes to around 3 KiB/s total.

There is no way to explain it by assumption that all torrent clients connected become suddenly busy so they start limit their upload speed (my download, respectively) to 1 or 2 KiB/s... Then when I remove upload limit - they are back again. But in any case the sharing ratio was about 3... And with the requirement to upload around 4 GiB before finishing torrent - I had a plenty of time to see it.

I consider it is the problem that should be fixed in uTorrent.

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You've FINALLY given me enough solid information that we can discuss the cause/effect you're seeing.

From your old posts, this isn't a new problem...rather an ongoing one you've had for awhile.

If anything, your connections per torrent seems oddly low.

Other settings seem about right.

Is DHT, Local Peer Discovery, and/or Resolve IPs all disabled?

Are the peers/seeds using encryption? (Possibly hostile ISP action...)

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I do not have problems with low (15) number of connections per torrent because:

1. watching many torrent runs I have not found any benefit of increasing the size of the pool. Usually a third to half of them may actually work at a time, while the rest is idling anyway.

2. it's the max number of connections that my uTorrent window may show without vertical scrolling ;)

In my configuration: HDT is "on". Local Peer Discovery is "off". Resolve IP's is "on".

Protocol encryption:

Outgoing - Enabled

"Allow incoming legacy connection" is "on".

My ISP doesn't do hostile actions against P2P. And how it'd targeted some specific torrents only?

uTorrent doesn't have such problem with most of torrents, but time to time it forces "reverse" share ratio with specific torrents. Tith these torrents I _must_ download more (sometimes 3 or even more) then the size of torrent _before_ I get the torrent. And it's not circumstantial, it's rather an enforced rule...

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