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Knight

PeerFactor+utorrent?

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hmm, what more can he say, the only things more to add would be to show a copy of the contract but he can't do that because of a confidential clause in the contract.

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peterpaulw: if you paranoid freaks can't trust Ludde's word, then don't use µTorrent, thank you very much. Now leave this community alone. :/

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I saw the recent post by Ludde and it is somewhat reassuring, but I do not think, that Ludde sufficiently answered the questions concerning his deal with PeerFactor, which have been brought out in the thread on Slyck.

You don't seem to understand this very basic concept. LUDDE DOES NOT WORK FOR YOU. In fact, ludde doesn't even care who you are or what you think. Neither do any other sensible people. It's nobody's job to reassure you or any of the other paranoid people. If you don't want to use the client don't use it and shut up about it.

I hate it so much when nerds on the internet get the idea their opinion somehow matters just because they use a certain program.

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I've been using µTorrent since last October, when I first started using P2P networks, and it is my BT client of choice.

All this contract hassle doesn't bother me in the least. Ludde can sign any contracts he likes, and it won't change my choice of BT client, as long as the contracts are not about µTorrent.

What really bothers me, and makes me somewhat nervous, is ludde's admission that he didn't know about PeerFactor's anti-P2P stance. Wow. I mean, WOW! Was it contract speed-signing for Guinness book, or what? I'm new to BT and P2P, I don't know a single bit about PeerFactor, so I did a quick google search, and within the first 10 links I got all information I needed to understand the situation.

Look, I'm a software developer myself, and I've signed some contracts in my life. And a contract is not signed without at least a cursory check of the other signatory. Ever.

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I hate it so much when nerds on the internet get the idea their opinion somehow matters just because they use a certain program.

Well, then what you just told him to do means absolutely nothing either. So, why should he do what you're trying to tell him to do? It's not like what anybody thinks matters for anything, eh? ;)

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(12:43:20) (@segosa) so, since you didn't answer in the thread, did you really have no clue about them before you signed, ludde?

(12:44:35) (~ludde) I knew that they had done some anti p2p, but I didn't think it was such a big deal.

(12:44:48) (~ludde) and the stuff I was involved it wasn't related to that anyway.

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So, why should he do what you're trying to tell him to do?

Majik, what ubitsa "told him to do" was a suggestion (a very sensible one in my opinion), not a command. I'm pretty sure that guy is not his slave.

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Majik, what ubitsa "told him to do" was a suggestion (a very sensible one in my opinion), not a command. I'm pretty sure that guy is not his slave.

You're completely missing the point.. His opinion is that the other guy should "just shut up" because "I hate it so much when nerds on the internet get the idea their opinion somehow matters". Well, he said himself peoples opinions don't matter on the Internet, so that means his don't either.. Maybe he's the one who should actually shut up, maybe you should, maybe I should. Hell, maybe we all should.

Oh wait, that's right.. This is the Internet, where people are supposed to be able to express their opinions and all that stuff. Not everybody is going to have the same opinion on everything.. nor should they. In discussion forums, only the administration (i.e. admins, mods, etc.) should be telling anyone to shut up.

I'd might as well comment on the original topic of this thread while I'm here.. I'm currently using µTorrent and recommend it to the users of my tracker. Nothing has happened yet to make me not. However, I do understand peoples fears and reservations relating to his new found affiliation with an Anti-P2P organization.

Oh, and I said absolutely nothing regarding slavery by the way. ;p

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In my view... here's the bottom line.

It looks bad and his, and the client's reputation is damaged.

How else can one put this?

And to those who throw the word paranoia around so willingly.... paranoia comes from experience. Don't be naive.

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I won't argue about anything you said. But about the paranoia thing, if anti-P2P is such a big deal, then maybe P2P just isn't for you. It's the risk anyone has to take when using P2P. Same goes with the Internet itself. I agree, maybe may be a bit too naive and trusting, but at least I won't be jumping to as many incorrect conclusions because of it either.

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Majik, I see what you're saying, and I see where our understanding differs.

His opinion is that the other guy should "just shut up" because "I hate it so much when nerds on the internet get the idea their opinion somehow matters".

What he means by "shut up" is simply to not demand explanations of Ludde, because he is not in a position to make demands because Ludde doesn't owe him anything. He does not mean that he should not express his opinion, like you interpreted it. The part with the "nerds on the internet" is just a more coarse way of saying the same thing ("they get the idea that their opinion matters" = "they get the idea that they can make demands of people [implicitly Ludde], because of their beliefs [implicitly insecurities and paranoia]"). Frankly, this kind of needy and demanding attitude irritates the hell out of me, and I totally understand where ubitsa is coming from.

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What he means by "shut up" is simply to not demand explanations of Ludde, because he is not in a position to make demands because Ludde doesn't owe him anything. He does not mean that he should not express his opinion, like you interpreted it. The part with the "nerds on the internet" is just a more coarse way of saying the same thing ("they get the idea that their opinion matters" = "they get the idea that they can make demands of people [implicitly Ludde], because of their beliefs [implicitly insecurities and paranoia]"). Frankly, this kind of needy and demanding attitude irritates the hell out of me, and I totally understand where ubitsa is coming from.

Ya, what he'd said can be taken a couple of different ways. I understand what you're saying here as well though. :)

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Well, then what you just told him to do means absolutely nothing either. So, why should he do what you're trying to tell him to do? It's not like what anybody thinks matters for anything, eh? ;)

Smartass :-P

If you read my post carefully, you can see that I'm not saying that my opinion has any importantce. This is indeed the internet, and anyone can say what they like. What's wrong is when people think that what they say matters, when it clearly does not matter. I just don't want this silly fellow to go through life thinking his opinion matters to ludde or anyone, he should know his ideas are worthless. :)

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http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=269971#269971

Smoovious wrote:

What PeerFactor got from Ludvig in the contract, was a DLL file with the BT protocols so they could interact with other BT clients. No source was shared with PeerFactor, and the contract was for a 6mo evaluation period.

Doesn't this mean that PeerFactor can now send thier fake files through bittorrent public trackers now like they payed people to do using p2p apps like Kazaa?If so this is all PeerFactor may have wanted and now they have a way to disrupt public trackers because a valuable file was given to them,sarcasm on wow a pretty smart move right there /sarcasm off.This blunder seems now too be alot bigger than utorrent now ay!

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Ok, I'm trying to look at this from RetSpan's point of view:

* Everybody hates us,

* Our anti-p2p "product" has made absolutly no difference at all,

* Downloading may become legal in our home country in line with popular opinion, thus rendering our business obsolete

....

....

....

Time to change direction perhaps?...Hmmm, what could we do...Hey, how about we get into the legal download business?

[/RetSpan inner monologue]

Personally, I'll be waiting to see what Ludde's .dll file actually does before commenting again, although I would suggest one thing to Ludde (and other people who may want to make him aware of it):

Ask PeerFactor if you can reveal some more details of the agreement. Yes, you signed a contract but if your reputation is suffering as a result of it, you can point this out to them and they may agree to more info being made available. (I've done this before in a similar situation - the contrators were more than happy to let me tell some other people what it was I was actually doing because they didn't want to see their investment (me) get a bad rep.

That's assuming you care enough about both your own reputation and uTorrent's.

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Ok, I'm trying to look at this from RetSpan's point of view:

Time to change direction perhaps?...Hmmm, what could we do...Hey, how about we get into the legal download business?

[/RetSpan inner monologue]

Yeah i think i see what thier saying now when they paid users to share fake files.The fake files that they were sharing when they were clicked on by an unsupecting user to download instead sent them to a legal site to pay for the file.Ok so thier gonna flood the public trackers with these types of files.Hmm limewire has a whole bunch of these fake files not to mention the classic kazaa.Bittorent is next up i see.Conclusion: The end result this will make it harder to find the free files we are used to getting good tactical move by them.Ps.If they have enough money to pay users to share fake files for them they should have enough money to make thier own legal filesharing network but they rather use the user rich bittorent network pretty clever they are.

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I really, really, REALLY, dont get the "If its not opensource, its spyware" approach.

Neither do I. If it's spyware, where can it hide all its monitoring functions if it's only ~150KB in size?

However the business association that Ludde has chosen to make with PeerFactor...seems unsavory.

PeerFactor/RetSpan is among the worst kind of p2p-copyright-monitoring company -- they monitor, report, and FLOOD file-sharing networks with fakes. I don't think anyone can defend their actions strictly on the basis of "we're just protecting copyrights" if you knew anything about the kind of "DDoS attacks" their flooding of fakes has done to the Gnutella network. (Generating fake resonses to searches for anything with certain keywords in them, monitoring every attempt to download them -- logging them as copyright violations without consideration of legal downloads with same keywords, and even disrupting the network by not properly routing searches which do no contain "forbidden" keywords.) Companies like these are actively working to destroy file-sharing, illegal AND otherwise.

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great..

i'm using peer guardian2 and since today, when I open up µT, one of the blocklists blocks

destination IP 207.142.136.45:80 (TCP) - "utorrent.com works for anti-p2p RetSpan"

idiots! :mad:

of course the IP went on my permanent allows list immediately..!

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I also want to know what list wormwhole uses,

because I use almost all bluetack blocklist and I don't get that block.

Could also be that they have removed the ips from the list.

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ah, that is bluetacks level 1 blocklist and I checked and it did contain the µTorrent block.

Someone should go over their and ask them to remove it.

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