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Knight

PeerFactor+utorrent?

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Do you people also lose sleep over Internet rumors that the surfactants in your shampoo are carcinogenic?

Not any more. They shave their heads and wash their scalps with soap they make themselves.

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@GUYNEWBIE:

http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=272303#272303

As for the people asking "why did ludde lie about knowing and blah blah," let me explain.

He didn't really lie about not knowing, he only knew about PeerFactor SARL, he didn't know about the PeerFactor you're all talking about. He knew that PeerFactor SARL had been apparently involved in anti-p2p before. What he did not know was that they were the former PeerFactor that was with RetSpan. This former PeerFactor broke apart and made a new pro-P2P company called PeerFactor SARL, which is the company ludde is dealing with.

So, again, he's dealing with a company that's not anti-P2P (anymore).

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DaBlade was obviously a µTorrent hater to begin with, so I'm not surprised with his reaction. I guess he doesn't understand what easter eggs are. Oh wait, if he loves Linux so much, maybe he should just ignore anything Windows, including µTorrent...

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Yeah those types of people everyone should try to ignore. They're nothing but walking diseases looking to pick a fight... :/

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DaBlade's just grumpy cause there's no Linux version. He was the same way about eXeem.(sorry Blade)

There may be hundreds of replies on Slyck about PeerFactor and Ludde. But in the end the trolls will fade away and only the smart posts will matter.

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Being grumpy doesn't give him the right to beat on µTorrent and anything related =P

I hope compdfender stops posting in that thread, because his posts were just plain stupid xD

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If you do this for a living then you should know it would be very hard it is to tell.

Im NOT saying utorrent does this but calling home one time a month using a list of 12 ip's, only when connecting to a torrent using the same torrent ports making it look like any other torrent Then calling the data a hash error so you can't even count the packats in. ver out. How would you know?

Actually it isn't hard at all, you see the to and from MAC and/or IP-addresses, and parse your logs on those.

or more risky, calling home every time after the call home it receives a new ip to call next time. or calling home only after a peer connects to you sending you ip to connect to.

Sure, it would cost you some time to log traffic and then decrypt it all, but if there's anything which is easy to do on computers these days, it's parsing log-files using easily adaptable scripts. You might want to look into the following story to get an idea on how easy things of such nature are: http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1814

If uTorrent would store stuff for a month and then send it only once, you can still see it storing to and reading from disk, even if the position on disk is uncommon and unnoticeable. This is also not hard to detect, decrypt or reveal.

What do you think bugtraq or similar groups are doing 24/7 ?

Remember what happened to SONY when their rootkit CDs got revealed. Do you think Ludde aspires risking his reputation like that? ;-)

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I have read all that Ultima.

You will all be happy to know this will be my last attempt at making my point (please hold applause till the end of the thread).

I will try to keep everything factual and only acknowledge Ludde's posts and uncontested interviews as his words.

A post from Smoovious in Slyck's forum stated;

March 04/06

QUOTE;

For the record, Ludvig was not aware of PeerFactor's ties to RetSpan at the time he signed the contract with PeerFactor.

I was present during the interview Mike had with Ludvig.

Ludvig didn't know anything about the RetSpan connection, or that PeerFactor was distributing fake content to begin with. He found out about all of this from Mike.

END QUOTE.

I know you are probably saying,"we have read all this" Please bear with me.

At this point most of us still think PeerFactor is a division of RetSpan, and there are no attempts to correct this thinking. Ludde apparently didn't know anything about the ties to RetSpan.

QUOTE;

Ludde

Joined: 04 Mar 2006

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject:

Come on everyone. What's the big deal?

It's not like this will affect µTorrent. ………..

…………………will allow me to do exactly that.

However, Goal 1) still has priority over Goal 2), so I would never accept anything that would break the rules in Goal 1).

Nuff said.

/Ludvig

END QUOTE (no need to show whole post)

Still no attempt at separating the 2 entities.

March 06/06

---Quote---

(12:43:20) (@segosa) so, since you didn't answer in the thread, did you really have no clue about them before you signed, ludde?

(12:44:35) (~ludde) I knew that they had done some anti p2p, but I didn't think it was such a big deal.

(12:44:4Cool (~ludde) and the stuff I was involved it wasn't related to that anyway.

---/quote---

After this statement, well it speaks for itself, the story changes.

March 09/06

Quote;

ludde

Site Admin

Re: PeerFactor+utorrent?

From what I can tell:

* PeerFactor was the name of a service by a company called RetSpan.

but also:

* PeerFactor SARL is the name of a totally different company that was founded in 2005. This company promotes P2P.

These seem to be (legally) two totally independent entities. I have a contract with the second, while the first one is clearly Anti-P2P.

The same people (at least one person) are behind both of them. They are probably confused mortals that realized that Anti-P2P isn't the right way to go, so they made another company related to the positive effects of P2P.

There might have been some confusion when I was interviewed by slyck. I thought the Slyck interviewer referred to PeerFactor SARL when he was talking about RetSpan's PeerFactor.

End Quote

Here we get a little history on PeerFactor. To which I find it had to believe he wouldn't clarify the different entities right there and then during the interview, and not five days later.

Quote;

Firon wrote:

As for the people asking "why did Ludde lie about knowing and blah blah," let me

explain.

He didn't really lie about not knowing, he only knew about PeerFactor SARL, he

Didn't know about the PeerFactor you're all talking about. He knew that

PeerFactor SARL had been apparently involved in anti-p2p before. What he did not

Know was that they were the former PeerFactor that was with RetSpan. This former

PeerFactor broke apart and made a new pro-P2P company called PeerFactor SARL,

Which is the company Ludde is dealing with.

So, again, he's dealing with a company that's not anti-P2P (anymore).

End Quote

This just tells me PeerFactor is PeerFactor. Yes they are no longer in any way linked to RetSpan, and yes they have a new agenda. Being that PeerFactor only left RetSpan 6 months ago; if you know the name logically you would know the history. Especially if you are going to do business with them. Weather it be SARL or not according to FIRON the name PeerFactor has a past with Anti-P2P.

I just think Ludde has made statements that contradict. And this is not a personal attack by any means. I believe in words, if you say something mean it. If for some reason Ludde didn't know the real history (which I think may be the case) then say so. He is only human everyone makes mistakes, and I don't think any would think less of him for it.

That's it I am done.

You may start the applause :P

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Azureus does it, with no option to turn it off.

Assuming you mean "send anonymous id and version number" its always been an option in azureus that you can turn off and on, at least it was when i used azureus a year or 2 ago, dont get me wrong I'm not a fan of azureus but the option was always there. :P

And I'm getting seriously tired of everyone attacking the "paranoid", there is a big difference between being paranoid, which I am quite a bit, and being an idiot that will argue and bitch about everything, regardless of how little they know, when something bothers me I don't feel the need to act like an idiot on online forums, but I am still paranoid and I get tired of hearing everyones badmouthing, I still use µtorrent and will continue to unless I actually see something "bad" happen, I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

People on this forum seriously need to stop acting like idiot fanboys and throwing around generalizations, you bitch that the "paranoid" people are arguing about things they don't know while us loyal people know just about as little, and are still arguing with them, a little bit hypocritical I think, I consider myself a "fanboy" of µtorrent, but am more often then not disgusted by the elitest attitude of enough of the regulars. and I don't mean just from the posts in this topic it's been going on since µtorrent started, not a good way to keep users or add to your user base by acting like you're better then everyone else.

Yes people are acting paranoid but that's what people said when others said loki was just gonna take off with the money, not so paranoid were they :lol:, the torrent scene has lost alot of face, faith, and trust in the last year, and the internet seems to become worse and worse everyday so yes people tend to jump the gun, but can you blame them, I think it's less paranoia and more cynicism or pessimism.

Remember before you flame me, I love and use µtorrent, so don't take one sentence out of context so you can bitch about my opinion, which in reality after re-reading it, isn't about µtorrent at all really, more just a social observation :lol:.

One last thought, blind faith isn't really any better then being paranoid, especially from an argument/conversation standpoint, and in most cases blind faith is far more dangerous then a little bit of paranoia.

Thats my deep thought for tonight so I'm done.

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How about asking yourself this question: Do I think µTorrent is working with Anti-P2P people to make P2P harder?

If the answer is Yes:

Why would µTorrent benefit from this?

Why would I lie about working with Anti-P2P and just say that I don't? Why would I want to destroy something I've spent tons of months on?

If the answer still is Yes, then I suggest you stop using µTorrent. If the user doesn't like my program, why would I want to keep the user.

If the answer is No:

All good.

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Fully agreed. :) This non-sense has come to an end. Either you use µTorrent, great, or you don't, which is fine too - use your favorite BitTorrent client. But there's no need to slam the product down, or give false accusations which you have no proof of. If you're that paranoid, write your own damn client instead of criticizing other people's hard work. 'Nuff said. :/

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ludde, I have no way to know what your agenda is, but there's one thing I know: you have handled this thing badly right from the start, dismissing the problem as inexistent; when a new piece of the story would emerge, you acknowledged it only making things less and less clear. One moment you know, then you don't know, then again you knew but not in the way that we might think and so on...

You can go on dismissing forever, but I don't think that'll make things any better, because I feel the underlying message that is passed on to the audience is that you care so little about them, that they do not even deserve to be told the truth right from the start.

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you have handled this thing badly right from the start

What a load of crap. Ludde is just human, and like many of us he has a life next to the internet. There is no way one can 'handle' things the right way when there are so many idiots out there. Give the guy a break already.

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How about asking yourself this question: Do I think µTorrent is working with Anti-P2P people to make P2P harder?

No, I don't think µTorrent is working with Anti-P2P. I think µTorrent developer was not careful enough, and is not honest enough. Does that mean that there's anything wrong with µTorrent? Not necessarily.

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nomad, what you mean that ludde isn't honest? he hasn't lied to us about this.

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there's one thing I know: you have handled this thing badly right from the start

hahaha, you people act as if he's running for president or something - newsflash: he's just maintaining a piece of software, for FREE.

"you have handled this thing badly", "I think µTorrent developer was not careful enough, and is not honest enough"... gee thanks guys, your opinion matters

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nomad, what you mean that ludde isn't honest? he hasn't lied to us about this.

Not lying, but. There are two possibilities:

1. Ludde didn't know what PeerFactor is/was, or had incomplete information, and signed a contract. Careless, but OK. He said, on IRC, that he knew about them and doesn't think it important. But now it's evident that it is important, even if it only hurts µTorrent reputation, not codebase, and ludde still refuses to see the problem.

2. Ludde did know what PeerFactor is/was, and signed a contract. Careless, again, but for another reason. In that case ludde should have known that it will ruin µTorrent reputation, and he still refuses to see it.

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Old Nomad: there's a big fucking difference between "is" and "was". The old Peerfactor WAS associated to Retspan, but has since split from them (no longer associated) and the Peerfactor now IS a new company. What exactly is the problem? :| Do you judge all Germans like that too just because of what Hitler/Himmler/Goering/Goebbles and crew did? Or do you think all Americans are like John Johnston? :rolleyes: Grow up!

And like I said, nobody is forcing this program down your throat. You're free to use any second-best client. :)

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1. Ludde didn't know what PeerFactor is/was, or had incomplete information, and signed a contract. Careless, but OK. He said, on IRC, that he knew about them and doesn't think it important. But now it's evident that it is important, even if it only hurts µTorrent reputation, not codebase, and ludde still refuses to see the problem.

2. Ludde did know what PeerFactor is/was, and signed a contract. Careless, again, but for another reason. In that case ludde should have known that it will ruin µTorrent reputation, and he still refuses to see it.

"he still refuses to see it", oh really? I would too if it meant having to agree with people like you. ;-)

Difference is, you don't help me with my bittorrent use, Ludvig does. So honestly, nobody cares what people like you think of him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludvig_Strigeus

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Old Nomad: there's a big fucking difference between "is" and "was". The old Peerfactor WAS associated to Retspan, but has since split from them (no longer associated) and the Peerfactor now IS a new company.

Is it? Legally, certainly they are separate. Judging from their website, their business is separate. But they bear the reputation of RetSpan, and will bear it for some time, until they prove that they follow different principles. Skunk stinks, you know.

EDIT: And just for the record, I'm not going to stop using µTorrent for a reason completely unrelated to its quality, which is, IMO, the best in its class.

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Old Nomad: so why keep bitching? :| Grab ethereal, monitor the packets and show your evidence. Otherwise be quiet. :/

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If you do this for a living then you should know it would be very hard it is to tell.

Im NOT saying utorrent does this but calling home one time a month using a list of 12 ip's' date=' only when connecting to a torrent using the same torrent ports making it look like any other torrent Then calling the data a hash error so you can't even count the packats in. ver out. How would you know?[/quote']

Actually it isn't hard at all, you see the to and from MAC and/or IP-addresses, and parse your logs on those.

or more risky, calling home every time after the call home it receives a new ip to call next time. or calling home only after a peer connects to you sending you ip to connect to.

Sure, it would cost you some time to log traffic and then decrypt it all, but if there's anything which is easy to do on computers these days, it's parsing log-files using easily adaptable scripts. You might want to look into the following story to get an idea on how easy things of such nature are: http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1814

If uTorrent would store stuff for a month and then send it only once, you can still see it storing to and reading from disk, even if the position on disk is uncommon and unnoticeable. This is also not hard to detect, decrypt or reveal.

What do you think bugtraq or similar groups are doing 24/7 ?

Remember what happened to SONY when their rootkit CDs got revealed. Do you think Ludde aspires risking his reputation like that? ;-)

Yes you could find if something is spyware but again it's not as easy as you make it sound. Watching logs setting up private networks just to monitor a program isn't something all but a couple people might do. Again if the system was setup so it was only "call-in/backdoor" so bots could use mininova type searches it would be very hard other then checking the code.Even if they found something as long as the system was setup to change no one would even trust you.

Let just say utorrent added in spyware.(NOT SAYING IT WILL) It's main goal would be to get as much information as it can for as long as it can. Not stay around for the next 10 years. People doing this know sooner or later they will be black listed. But you just come up with new program couple weeks later. Or have your other programs in the works. How many p2p programs have you seen come around then gone the next week over the last couple years? Nothing new.

As for Ludde hurting his own name... Maybe I'm just a bad person but if someone gave me say half-million bucks to sell utorrent I would. It's not making hem any money. Food ,school, family ect comes before a lot of people I don't really know.. What they do with the software after I'm gone, is none of my business.

Again so I don't get flamed I'm not anti-utorrent I will keep using the program until the time I see not too or something better comes along. Thankyou everyone for the hard work :)

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