"Show a windows that displays the files inside the torrent"

[moxfalder]

Hi, my name is Mox, and i want to help uTorrent to be best torrent-client on the world.

In new wersion i saw some changes which is not so great.

When i add new download like a *.torrent file, it's ok to have dialog window with listed files inside.

When i adding magnet link, there is no any download files to show, so i don't expect any dialog windows.

For magnet links, dialog window is meaningless.

Thanks.

[ChichipioWilson]

Completely false.

Showing the contents of the torrent is only one of the the several things that the dialog box is for.

Assigning Labels and changing the download location are very useful. Not having the possibility of choosing where to download the contents was the main reason why I didn't use magnet links very often.

[DreadWingKnight]

When i adding magnet link, there is no any download files to show, so i don't expect any dialog windows.

For magnet links, dialog window is meaningless.

What is SUPPOSED to be happening is that uTorrent should be waiting until it has the metadata for the associated torrent before throwing the dialog, but it isn't.

[tinstaafl]

I thought the idea of magnet links was to make it easier to download torrents. If that is the case, for those of us with enough intelligence to know where our files are going before we download them, why isn't there an easy to find option to turn the dialogue off.

[moxfalder]

I thought the idea of magnet links was to make it easier to download torrents. If that is the case, for those of us with enough intelligence to know where our files are going before we download them, why isn't there an easy to find option to turn the dialogue off.

Exactly, but:

- i don't need dialogs for magnet links, and at the same time i need dialogs for torrents with actual lists of files.

p.s.

- previous version does this perfectly,

new change sucks.

[DreadWingKnight]

Search the forums for "always show dialog on manual add" to see the kind of complaints about the old way.

[moxfalder]

Main thing of option "Show a windows that displays the files inside the torrent" that is not valid for MAGNET LINKS, because when i add magnet link, uTorrent don't see relative *.torrent file, and can't "displays the files inside the torrent".

That options have nothing to do with magnet links, so i expect dialog window shows only when i add torrent file.

[Ultima]

Magnet URIs cause the client to download the essential parts of the .torrent file before it proceeds to download the actual contents, so it's just an alternate way to grab the metadata. You're in the minority if you seriously think that this current behavior is wrong or a bug.

By your logic, adding by some regular HTTP URL should also never cause µTorrent to show the dialog. Which uh... just no.

[moxfalder]

If after adding magnet link uTorrent right away download *.torrent and show content of this in dialog window(which i suggest in another topic year ago), it's fine.

By my logic adding *.TORRENT file directly or through the URL SHOULD display dialog, if

magne link, don't.

[tinstaafl]

I don't know why it's impossible to see that this is a huge step backwards. Pretty much every site that I've seen that has magnet links also has torrent links. Having them separate, meant that if you knew where your files were going, etc. and you accepted that, you hit the magnet link, however, if you wanted to change anything you hit the download link, and if you didn't want the dialog at all you turned it off. Now with this huge step backward you either get dialogs for both or for none.

[moxfalder]

I don't know why it's impossible to see that this is a huge step backwards. Pretty much every site that I've seen that has magnet links also has torrent links. Having them separate, meant that if you knew where your files were going, etc. and you accepted that, you hit the magnet link, however, if you wanted to change anything you hit the download link, and if you didn't want the dialog at all you turned it off. Now with this huge step backward you either get dialogs for both or for none.

Exactly.

For *.torrent-dialog

For magnet links-NO dialog

I hope developers will change this BUG.

[Ultima]

Oh, so you're assuming something about intent and passing it off as fact. (Edit: Whatever @ that bit)

The fact of the matter is, not every BitTorrent client even supports magnet URIs. Obviously, sites that serve magnet URIs are going to continue serving .torrent files too to support other clients, so obviously, they'll be placed side-by-side. That doesn't mean they're meant to be used differently.

The point behind magnet URIs was to decentralize how the .torrent metainfo is distributed. It is meant to be an alternative metainfo distribution system that fits into the existing model. It isn't some novel system that requires a completely distinct way to handle things. Or are you also suggesting that DHT shouldn't be used as any traditional tracker is used? Or that webseeds shouldn't be used like any other swarm peer is used?

And I don't think you've properly grasped what constitutes a "bug". Just because you don't like something doesn't make it a bug. Assuming the location that the user wishes to download the torrent contents to just because the user used an alternative torrent metainfo acquisition method is far buggier logic/behavior than showing the dialog without anything in the file selection list.

[tinstaafl]

So how is taking them from being separate to treating them the same with no option to treat them separate a step forward and not a step backward?

[Ultima]

Sorry to break it to you, but having tons of options isn't a step forward for usability. If that were the case, then Azureus/Vuze should be your model of perfection, and µTorrent would never live up to it.

Magnet URIs and the traditional methods of adding torrent jobs were never meant to be truly distinct in behavior in the first place. It was just done that way (with no dialog) as a stopgap measure to support magnet URIs in some basic fashion while more complete support was implemented later on. Sure, I said "never meant", and use cases can evolve, but I'm going to have to defer my response to whatever I said in my previous post.

[tinstaafl]

So you're reducing usability and making it more awkward to use and still you call it a step forward. When the usability and function was already there. If you wanted or didn't want the dialog all you had to do was choose the link that was available. I don't see how that was buggier, since there have been millions of torrents downloaded that way without a problem.

[Ultima]

What you're asking for is akin to saying that browsers shouldn't ask the user where to download files to if they copied/pasted a link into the addressbar rather than clicked a hyperlink directly to the same file. Because the former is all a magnet URI (or HTTP URL) really is.

So if sites eventually stop serving .torrent files, the client will never again ask the user where they'd like to save the torrent contents. Sounds like a good plan to me. And "just add an option" isn't the proper catch-all for indecision either.

Anyway, I've said my piece, and I don't think this conversation is really budging on either side. I've forwarded this thread to someone who might be able to respond in a more official capacity. If you don't see a response from a BitTorrent Inc. employee, and nothing changes in µTorrent, then I guess that's that. If whatever you guys have said thus far manages to convince someone who actually makes decisions, then awesome for you. I'll still disagree with your proposal, but I can't say I'll be actively fighting it.

[Switeck]

So you're reducing usability and making it more awkward to use and still you call it a step forward. When the usability and function was already there.

The point has been made that magnet links weren't "always" in uTorrent.

So if they don't work exactly as you want them to now doesn't mean a reduction of usability. The "old" .torrent links still work fine.

Making magnet links work "like" old .torrent links requires a lot of hurdles to be passed.

Magnet links don't extract enough information to fill the dialog box with details about what they are or contain. Even many trackers don't contain the information needed, because they only know the .torrent file's hash. DHT doesn't contain the information either. Nor does Local Peer Discovery or Peer Exchange. But they must be used to connect to a peer or seed WITH the information so they can send it to you...which can take minutes if it's via DHT and few peers/seeds are left on the torrent.

Forcing the window to remain open and locked so you can't do anything else in uTorrent till it has all its values filled might work, but that method could take minutes. Some .torrent files are over 500 KB in size -- these might download at <1 KB/sec from an already overloaded peer or seed. So in that case, you might have to wait >10 minutes.

I cannot imagine such behavior would be acceptable either.

[boskabouter]

Wow, this is like redesigning a car to have no trunk lid because people found the lock confusing, and ask people to stop complaining because you can still get your stuff in through the doors!

I know Joel Spolsky stopped maintaining his "Joel on Software" blog, but you might wanna read up on him saying how acquiring simplicity doesn't mean removing features...

[moxfalder]

I see here solution:

- add an option to "show/don't show dialog window for magnet links", so one checkBox can keep everybody happy.

I use *.torrent and magnet links 50/50, and to me one way or another is sacrifice of a one of uTorrent functionality.

Cheers.

[Ultima]

Wow, this is like redesigning a car to have no trunk lid because people found the lock confusing, and ask people to stop complaining because you can still get your stuff in through the doors!

I know you'd like to twist the story around so that it looks good for your side of the argument, but seriously, that's a terribly invoked analogy, and someone needs to call you out on your bullshit. Still, it's not too late -- we can salvage it!

This is like completing an unfinished sedan that was originally released with the promise that the lid would be added later on. After all, I did say that magnet URI support was previously implemented incompletely, and it was knowingly released in that state. You're free to go back and check when magnet URI support was first added if you don't believe me when I say that the dialog was always planned to be added.

You complaining that the dialog is in the way is exactly like you complaining that the trunk lid is in your way. You wanting different behaviors depending on metainfo acquisition method is like you wanting to toss stuff in the lidless trunk when you can't be bothered to place your stuff carefully (what you want magnet URIs to behave like), and putting the stuff through the side doors when you feel like doing things manually (adding .torrent files directly).

You somehow found that a lidless trunk was super convenient because it allows you to just throw things in the sedan without first opening the lid to place things in the trunk with care, even though logically/realistically, a lidless sedan trunk is actually a liability by any sane person's standards. So now that the car manufacturer lived up to its original promise of completing the unfinished (lidless-trunked) sedan, you're ridiculously shouting at the manufacturer for fulfilling that promise, and accusing the manufacturer of somehow punishing you. Even though everyone knows that it's stupid to have sedan trunks without lids.

So yeah. Just FYI.

[moxfalder]

In

"When Adding Torrents: Show a windows that displays the files inside the torrent"

point me to a relation to MAGNET LINKS

note: when adding magnet links, torrent doesn't exists for uTorrent yet.