'Address To The Nation': aka people need to respect opinions

[chaosblade]

As it seems from recent replys to posts i have made, People seem to confuse my opinion with Hate. I dont hate anyone. Honestly. Not even in real life. I dont hate people.

So I figured i'll put this all in a single thread instead of talking over several other threads and driving them off-topic.

Ok, here we go. Remember people, No offense. Im not saying anything bad about anyone. Everyone's a good person im my head until he does something REALLY bad.

The sheer amount of useless features being requested is just plain silly. Everything between asking uTorrent to have a dancing monkey to entertain you while its working up to having it contact a remote control on your couch so you dont even have to use the keyboardmouse. Whats so wrong in actually doing something yourself ? An extra feature just so you can do something in a single click instead of two ? of three ? Lets add maco hotkeys aswell, so you dont have to do several stuff, just program it to do everything for you. Maximizing uTorrent's potential ? Go ahead. Those useless features arent doing anything to make uTorrent a better client. It is just annoying to see people clip-paste entries from BitComet's feature page and Azureus' wiki without even bothering to stop and think if those features are really useful to anyone besides THEMSELVES.

The reason we all support this client is BECAUSE it is so effecient in many ways compered to the other popular clients. But people seem to forget this and simply want this to turn into a mimic of their last favorite client. Why ? Isnt that the reason you switched in the first place ? Do you really think the effective usage of resources is magic ? and if all those extranous features are added, it will magiclly stay the same ? There's a limit to what you can achieve EVEN without the burden of the virtual machine (in azureus' case) or the traditional CC++ runtime libraries (in BitComet's case). uTorrent has already started using one of those as a result of some feature requests. I only ask that people try to look one step ahead of their own comfort and see if what they think is best for them is also good for others in terms of this client.

Conclusion, This is just the opinion of a voiceless user. I have no saying what so ever in any decision in this client, but i will voice my opinion regardlessly. Think of it, and me, as you wish. That is your concern.

In the end, im just trying to support my favorite client and keep it like that, so other people will continue to enjoy it like i do. One might think im taking this too seriously. Well, maybe. But i do care. And if no one every cared, windows would still perform like v1.0 back in the 80s. Linux exists because people care. *shrugs*

Anyway, those are my 2 cents. Do as you please. It's a free world, after all

[Ultima]

I wholeheartedly agree with you chaos... a lot of features are extraneous and only mimic the last client. I find it annoying to see that people want to turn µTorrent into that "last" client they used. Sure, there are some real gems in the Feature Requests forums that I really would like to see implemented, but then there are also a lot of requests to add features minimal little benefit. I agree with people when they say that the computer was made to make your life easier (let you be lazy), but asking for EVERYTHING to be made easier to do for dissipating returns in efficiency (and at the cost of burdening the devs with even more things to do) is crossing the line...

µTorrent is attractive because it is small, fast, and efficient. Let's try not to make it into another hog...

[Knight]

perhaps you should read and think about the thread before going on a crusade "to save utorrent" from becoming like other clients.

[stevenofnine]

In the end, it all comes down to what you want to be able to do with your client.

If I had a 4.0GHz processor and 2GB RAM, I wouldn't care what pigpile of features my client had. What I want, personally, from a client, is this:

1) Maximise download speed.

2) Don't consume my resources.

1) can be done with a client that efficiently connects to and dialogues with trackers. µTorrent doesn't do that as well as some others, yet. It often shows far fewer seeds/peers than others show/conenct to. Still, that's easy enough to fix.

Don't confuse a slow download with a bad client. Your peers may be feeding slowly, it isn't necesarily your client.

But when the trackers are down, Azureus' dht is unbeatable.

2) is tough to do. The temptation in today's programming world is to code function, rather than code functionally. Processors are so fast, coders write without an eye to resource. So the programme runs fine on the development machine when it's all you have going... what about at home when I have a browser, Office Suite and mp3 player all going during homework?

µTorrent does this extremely well, and we shouldn't ask it to add footprint for more than the basics.

[chaosblade]

Knight: I want to have a good, fast, efficient client. If you dont, go use azureus. Dont turn uTorrent into an azureus clone. You already have a client that fits your needs, if so.

stevenofnine: #2 is also heavily effected by the features that are put into the software. Enter the issue of extranous and non-beneficial features. Im not talking about code efficiency, thats hard to do, i know (as a programmer).

I never complained about speed in the first place.

[Knight]

Why dont you trust the devs from turning THEIR client into bloatware?btw which of my suggestions for utorrent would stop utorrent from being fast and efficient?

[oxymoron]

@Chaosblade: I'm new to uTorrent as wella s this BB, but from what I read so far I didn't got the impression that you'r trying to force your opinion on others.

The reason I switched to uTorren in a heartbeat was its small size and footprint (memory and CPU time).

My impression so far is, that this is the most importan feature of uTorrent, when comapred to other clients.

So while adding new features is nice, the team shoudl never compromise on size/speed.

@Knight: Why can't you accept that Chaosblae has a different opinion than you and that he voices this opinion.

That's what BBs/forums are all about: Exchanging _different_ opinions

[Knight]

theres a difference from having an opinion and spamming just about every thread with "LOL go back to azureus".

[lorcro2000]

The thing of it is, I don't feel Azureus (to pick just one example) is in the least bit overloaded with features. It has many, yes, and I don't use all of them myself - but someone, somewhere, does.

You seem to confuse Azureus with Java. Azureus itself isn't necessarily bloated or a resource hog, but since it was built on Java, it is the latter that causes massive resource usage on the machine.

Looking at my freshly started Azureus, that Azureus binary itself uses below 2MB of memory. Java, however, sucks up 50.

I for one would love it if utorrent became a total Azureus clone feature-wise, including plugins, yet done as a native windows application. Considering what the developers have already shoehorned into less than 100k, I have little doubt they could add A LOT still and keep the executable quite reasonably sized.

That said, I do agree with not bogging the application down with dancing monkeys or extremely marginal or silly features - and I'm sure that the developers look at any feature request very critically before they decide it makes sense for their client.

[Ultima]

Azureus itself uses little memory not because it does, but because most of the things it does take place inside of the Java runtime. If it were to become a native Windows application, its memory usage would undoubtedly increase. Bloat doesn't mean only resource hog, but also extraneous-feature-ful (heh). IMO (and I'm sure a lot of other people's), Azureus has a lot of extraneous features. An example might be the graphical display of the swarm. That one feature screams bloat to me =P

I personally don't dislike Azureus, just find that it can trim a lot of fat =]

[Astral Monkey]

Wow jumping 83KB to 94KB in one month is killing me ...I'm mean its just getting waaaaaaaay too bloated ... Oh no look its about to top 100KB :shock:

Lets face it the program is new, its going to grow. If ludde and vurlix think some requests need to be added they will add them.

The program will never be bloated, it will never ever reach 1MB (which is still pretty damn small) Why? Because thats its niche, small and still as good as the popular ones... so quit whining little babies.

[erissiva]

Easy test to see if client is 'bloated':

Open up the Properties menu.

If there are more than 23 sub-menus with AT LEAST 5 options on each submenu - YOU LOSE.

Ktnx for playing.

Bye.

[segosa]

Some feature I don't understand is 'Randomize port when uTorrent starts'.

It sounds exactly like one of the features chaosblade is talking about. What on EARTH is the use of that? Those who have routers won't be able to use it, and those who don't, why would they need it to be randomised? Pick a high port and stick with it, it's VERY unlikely it's going to suddenly be taken by another application. In fact, by randomising it you're risking choosing a port that another application has used.

If someone can explain to me the use behind it I'd appreciate it.

Anyway, I agree with chaosblade. Features being requested are ones that would only benefit the user requesting them, not be useful for the majority. More features means more code, more code means more likelihood of bugs, and bugs are bad.

[ScubaSteve]

i agree with chaos. ive seen some pretty stupid requests lately. If ppl want there client todo about 50 bajillion things then go and get azureus.

as for your opinions and ppl confusing them with hate, were alll allowed opinions and you have every right to express them (even if they seem harsh sometimes). im sure that some of my opinions have annoyed ppl but thats the way i am if i feel strongly enough about it.

so far the devs are doing a great job, the only thing i am really waiting for is the DHT support. once thats in theres very little more that can really be beneficial for the client. maybe a few more tweaks on the create torrent dialog, and the udp support.

[Ultima]

Open up the Properties menu.

If there are more than 23 sub-menus with AT LEAST 5 options on each submenu - YOU LOSE.

chaos never said that µTorrent is bloated. He was voicing his hopes that it never will become so. And if all those requests do become implemented, then guess what? It might just become like that.

[Knight]

its painfully obvious that chaos's inability to respone to my questions only proves my point about him blindly labeling everything as bloat.

[erissiva]

Open up the Properties menu.

If there are more than 23 sub-menus with AT LEAST 5 options on each submenu - YOU LOSE.

chaos never said that µTorrent is bloated. He was voicing his hopes that it never will become so. And if all those requests do become implemented, then guess what? It might just become like that.

Nonono...I was talking about other clients. I know what he was saying.

its painfully obvious that chaos's inability to respone to my questions only proves my point about him blindly labeling everything as bloat.

Wow. That's fantastic logic there. "You didnt chose to answer me and continue the argument, which means I must be right"

[sixshot]

erm... I respect anyone's opinion... but it seems the general worry here is "bloat" or too many features... so ... let's review...

µTorrent is an efficient and feature rich BitTorrent client for Windows sporting a very small footprint. It was designed to use as little cpu, memory and space as possible while offering all the functionality expected from advanced clients.

At the moment, it does have enough features as-is for the power users to make the most of this client. Yes, there are some additional things that can be added and implemented. And there are some that can be left without. However, everyone ought to remember that the goal of uTorrent is to be light on the CPU and memory consumption. I'm sure that, when designed right, several features can be implemented and still have little CPU usage. Memory footprint, however, may begin to increase due to the amount of things coded into the program.

You can only optimize an application to a limit. Memory consumption shouldn't be much of an issue at this point even though we appreciate the small amount it uses. If you worry about memory consumption, buy more RAM. Otherwise, let uTorrent be designed with just enough features to satisfy the basic necessity of a client as well as providing users with enough advanced features to optimize their network bandwidth.

The talk of comparing this with Azureus is thin ice. Azureus only starts out being small in memory consumption. Add in about 5-10 torrents with 3-4 of them running simultaneously, and you'll begin to see things spiral out of control. While it does sport nice features that makes it great to use, there are other things that can make Azureus a client not worth having around. Nobody mentioned about the nag box about donating. And I have my own personal preferences as to what a client should be able to do. And since Azureus has "everything but the kitchen sink," the time and effort needed to hack up Azureus source code and make it much more lightweight is not worth it.

With so many clients out there, there is bound to be one that suits your need. If it does exactly what you want it to do, use it. If not, search again and try another one. Or simply deal with it. Note that I would like to have a custom bandwidth limit menu instead of the predefined list. I can live without it. And it's only something that perhaps other people may possibly use (those who use their connection for more than just simple torrent & downloading). Is it a requirement? No. I can always change my limit manually. But since there's already a right-click context menu on the status bar, why not?

Right now, uTorrent is fine as-is. I appreciate the authors' time and effort that went into creating and developing a BitTorrent client. Should they feel that a feature would be nice for everyone to use, then they will code it in. If it doesn't make it in, simply inquire and ask what their (the devs) opinions are on it. Simply appreciate and deal with the features we have now in this program. Don't believe that a feature would benefit you. Consider the usage aspects as well as the difficulty in implementing the feature in code.

That ends my two cents. Take it for what you believe it's worth.

[deeppal]

its painfully obvious that chaos's inability to respone to my questions only proves my point about him blindly labeling everything as bloat.

Sometimes its just better to ignore the empty vessels. And u have ur opinion, no matter wat someone tells u, u are not even gonna understand wat the other person is saying.

So nobody wants to waste their time on u. U can carry on wasting ur time tho.

Please keep this client clean and simple and not add every "spoonfeeding" option in the client.

[Knight]

its painfully obvious that chaos's inability to respone to my questions only proves my point about him blindly labeling everything as bloat.

Sometimes its just better to ignore the empty vessels. And u have ur opinion, no matter wat someone tells u, u are not even gonna understand wat the other person is saying.

So nobody wants to waste their time on u. U can carry on wasting ur time tho.

Please keep this client clean and simple and not add every "spoonfeeding" option in the client.

Im guessing you havent read the entire thread, or the other thread were chaos and i went back and forth untill I asked him some questions to justify his spamming.

[deeppal]

its painfully obvious that chaos's inability to respone to my questions only proves my point about him blindly labeling everything as bloat.

Sometimes its just better to ignore the empty vessels. And u have ur opinion, no matter wat someone tells u, u are not even gonna understand wat the other person is saying.

So nobody wants to waste their time on u. U can carry on wasting ur time tho.

Please keep this client clean and simple and not add every "spoonfeeding" option in the client.

Im guessing you havent read the entire thread, or the other thread were chaos and i went back and forth untill I asked him some questions to justify his spamming.

I did and i really dont want to go back and forth with u on this one too. Really cant be bothered.

[Knight]

its painfully obvious that chaos's inability to respone to my questions only proves my point about him blindly labeling everything as bloat.

Sometimes its just better to ignore the empty vessels. And u have ur opinion, no matter wat someone tells u, u are not even gonna understand wat the other person is saying.

So nobody wants to waste their time on u. U can carry on wasting ur time tho.

Please keep this client clean and simple and not add every "spoonfeeding" option in the client.

Im guessing you havent read the entire thread, or the other thread were chaos and i went back and forth untill I asked him some questions to justify his spamming.

I did and i really dont want to go back and forth with u on this one too. Really cant be bothered.

if you did read this entire thread you would know it has little do with opinions dipshit.

[ScubaSteve]

This topic is getting out of hand now.

Everyone has the right to there own opinion and the freedom to express it. Just because we may not all agree with it doesnt mean we should start throwing insults at each other.

*votes for the topic to be locked*

[sethg]

Some feature I don't understand is 'Randomize port when uTorrent starts'.

People who have routers that support uPnP and choose to turn it on can make use of this. The possible benefit of it is keeping your port number off your ISP's radar screen. If the port is different every time uTorrent starts, the ISP is not likely to notice and block it. For me, uPnP is a security threat, and I don't run XP, so there are two reasons I don't use it. For others who do run XP and feel that uPnP is not a significant security threat, it has some value, IMHO.

[ViCyniC]

As it seems from recent replys to posts i have made, People seem to confuse my opinion with Hate. I dont hate anyone. Honestly. Not even in real life. I dont hate people.

So I figured i'll put this all in a single thread instead of talking over several other threads and driving them off-topic.

Ok, here we go. Remember people, No offense. Im not saying anything bad about anyone. Everyone's a good person im my head until he does something REALLY bad.

The sheer amount of useless features being requested is just plain silly. Everything between asking uTorrent to have a dancing monkey to entertain you while its working up to having it contact a remote control on your couch so you dont even have to use the keyboardmouse. Whats so wrong in actually doing something yourself ? An extra feature just so you can do something in a single click instead of two ? of three ? Lets add maco hotkeys aswell, so you dont have to do several stuff, just program it to do everything for you. Maximizing uTorrent's potential ? Go ahead. Those useless features arent doing anything to make uTorrent a better client. It is just annoying to see people clip-paste entries from BitComet's feature page and Azureus' wiki without even bothering to stop and think if those features are really useful to anyone besides THEMSELVES.

The reason we all support this client is BECAUSE it is so effecient in many ways compered to the other popular clients. But people seem to forget this and simply want this to turn into a mimic of their last favorite client. Why ? Isnt that the reason you switched in the first place ? Do you really think the effective usage of resources is magic ? and if all those extranous features are added, it will magiclly stay the same ? There's a limit to what you can achieve EVEN without the burden of the virtual machine (in azureus' case) or the traditional CC++ runtime libraries (in BitComet's case). uTorrent has already started using one of those as a result of some feature requests. I only ask that people try to look one step ahead of their own comfort and see if what they think is best for them is also good for others in terms of this client.

Conclusion, This is just the opinion of a voiceless user. I have no saying what so ever in any decision in this client, but i will voice my opinion regardlessly. Think of it, and me, as you wish. That is your concern.

In the end, im just trying to support my favorite client and keep it like that, so other people will continue to enjoy it like i do. One might think im taking this too seriously. Well, maybe. But i do care. And if no one every cared, windows would still perform like v1.0 back in the 80s. Linux exists because people care. *shrugs*

Anyway, those are my 2 cents. Do as you please. It's a free world, after all

ok.....