Vuze - super seed - connection issues.

[VuzeUser]

Utorrent seems to ,not be playing nice when I superseed initial uploads.

yes ... vuze is setup right , connection , ports,encryption ect.. please don't bore me or be condescending about my setup .. there is nothing wrong with it .

Or with questions/statements like ,

you must not have enough available bandwidth , (during X event )

You have too many torrents running... etc..

This issue is fully reproducible: ( does not apply to any specific utorrent build or encryption protocol / who made the connection (nat ! port protocol etc.. ) etc.. )

1. Start seeding new torrent ( super seeding mode ) in vuze.

.................

2. Users connect. ( mostly utorrent )

2A. The connected utorrent users , download the few bytes (approx) needed to be put in the queue.

2B. They are assigned a piece that I will seed to them.

2C. They disconnect without downloading. ( not all of them do this , but a lot of them (majority) , i cant see a clear pattern if it even exists)

2D. Now Vuze will regard the assigned piece as part of seeding in Super Seeding mode , the next leecher to connect will be assigned the next piece.

...............

3. More utorrent clients connect and then disconnect . creating pieces assigned to super seeding that will never be seeded in that said mode.

***

***

This makes a mockery of super seeding mode.

With a popular torrent , i have ""super seeded"" less than 40% of the data.

then super seeding automatically ends (Works , as is Desired by protocol ) ,

So the remaining +60% is being seeded normally ( ad hoc / duplicate data)

Also. When utorrent users do connect ( and stay connected ) to a superseed using vuze ,

they take a really long time start downloading at full speed.

They start off downloading at a few kbps , only after a few minutes will the utorrent clients suddenly start downloading at full speed,

it's as if the client just realises that the vuze peer might be useful to leech from.. ( I know that sounds silly , technically ridiculous , but it really does happen that way )

*Other non-utorrent clients , connect and download at full speed within seconds.

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.This issue could possibly be fixed at the vuze end... by filtering out and blocking utorrent users who persistently connect and disconnect without downloading a piece.

BUT blocking is not desired , that's just dealing with the side effects.. not fixing the issue.

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a quick footnote.... (general not superseed specific)

Utorrent clients ( instances) request the same pieces over and over again from a vuze seeder.

Why not request the rarest pieces ? instead of the most available pieces , from the only seed ?

End user cpu performance is a big part of utorrent's success , yet it's network transfer performance makes me mad as an initial seeder.

[DreadWingKnight]

Vuse's superseed mode is a sequential upload system.

It uploads 1-end sequentially to the swarm, then switches to normal seeding to fill in pieces.

Additionally, Vuse's superseed performance is, because of this method, sub-standard for the concept.

Why not request the rarest pieces ? instead of the most available pieces , from the only seed ?

S.O.P. for uTorrent is rarest first.

Super-seed modes outside of the one in BitTornado core clients don't have good performance from what I've seen.

[rafi]

Did any of you two confirmed this with your own two uT clients (on a LAN) ?

[VuzeUser]

Did any of you two confirmed this with your own two uT clients (on a LAN) ?

Not via lan , but yes verified over the net.

No clear utorrent build was better/worse ,

Vuze fared a little better with few disconnect's and slow starts with some of the older builds.

Deluge was the big surprise with very few disconnects and very fast initial connection speed. (once connected for a couple of seconds , deluge leeched at full speed)

The Usual seedbox clients , didn't do too well , most surprisingly all the builds of libtorrent that where tested , refused to download at all from vuze in super seeding mode.

Vuse's superseed mode is a sequential upload system.

It uploads 1-end sequentially to the swarm, then switches to normal seeding to fill in pieces.

Additionally, Vuse's superseed performance is, because of this method, sub-standard for the concept.

Agree 100%. The efficiency and actual aim of super-seeding is compromised , because at the end of sequential piece assignment , normal ad-hoc transfer begins.

The only way round this in Vuze , is to have superseeding mode end only when ,

(x)Seeds are in swarm (who you can't always trust to seed back fast enough , if at all )

OR/And

Piece not uploaded ( reset piece assignment to ""unassigned"" for (x) piece )

IF

after (y)time ( piece(x) = not 100% transferred = True)

But that is a just work around , hence why I posted the issue here.

utorrent will still connect up to the ONLY seed , Then disconnect without downloading

Not good for utorrent users who want to download from the seed.

Either is the initial speed they get from the only seed , as I stated it can take a really long time before the utorrent client starts downloading at full speed. For reasons that I don't know.

S.O.P. for uTorrent is rarest first.

Do all versions have S.O.P ? is it enabled by default ?

Is the method for calculating the rarest piece identical for all users in the swarm ?

That is probably another part of the problem... Seems strange but if you think about it.

eg.. One seeder ( 100 active connections).....

100 leechers.... All wanting AND downloading the exact same piece from the only seed.

Ad-hoc distribution is far faster than the only seed , sending out the same piece to all leechers at the same time.

*** of course real world , you would rarely , if ever seed the same piece to all leechers at the same time.

*** but it duplication happens.

An easy fix for that would be for S.O.P to be disabled when the number of seeds is below 2. done

I really do hope utorrent realise this issue effect their users negatively ,as well as vuze who also need to implement changes to boost network and transfer efficiency.

Average Initial seeding could be done in nearly half the time.. It really could !

[DreadWingKnight]

Do all versions have S.O.P ? is it enabled by default ?

S.O.P. - Standard Operating Procedure.

In short, the normal way that uTorrent downloads pieces is rarest first then random. It's only in 3.x versions that you can even pretend to turn it off, and even then if swarm conditions won't allow for the "streaming" it won't let them.