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New uttorrent install and incomplete uninstall.


gslack

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I Joined this forum so I could respond to this new utorrent system. I hope this gets posted...

First, I updated utorrent and at some point during the install the options got really vague and obscure. AT some point the install while trying to de-select all the add-ons, one must have gotten by me and I am now stuck with an extra entry in my uninstall control panel that I cannot get rid of.

And before someone points me to another thread with snide remark about searching, I ALREADY REMOVED THE EXTENSIONS IN CHROME AND FIREFOX!!!!. Removing them from both browsers did remove them from their respective browsers BUT the utorrent toolbar is STILL in my uninstall control panel. Every attempt to uninstall this gets a simple error beep (no error popup or anything), and then nothing, as if it wasn't even clicked.

Now I know I can go into the registry and remove this, however that IS NOT WHAT I ASKED FOR. I didn't want this toolbar installed, I didn't ask for this toolbar, I just must have missed one of the MANY checkboxes. So by doing so I have had to go through a process to remove said unwanted software, and repair the browser redirects and hijackings that was tedious and unwarranted. Only now to still have to go into the registry by hand and remove the last bits of it....

You can tell us its our fault for not paying attention during the install all you want, but there are a few problems with that claim.

1. The installer obfuscates the process, and makes the "select" or "deselect" options confusing as to which you are agreeing or disagreeing to. Leading to many situations like my own. This was obviously done intentionally and with the goal to trick the client into installing the added software.

2. A less tech-savvy person would most likely trust the installer and just click yes to everything during the install process. This WOULD eventually lead to problems with both security of the operating system, and performance. This is undeniable and shows this problem all too clearly in this very forum.

3. Uninstalling this added software is a task that most less savvy users would not be able to do themselves without help which could lead to paying for a tech to do it for them. One would think that removing utorrent would remove the connected features and softwares, but this is not the case. Uninstalling utorrent leaves the utorrent toolbar and browser redirects and search hijackers in the respective browsers. And in my case removing them from the respective browsers does not remove the toolbar from windows uninstall control panel.

4. In light of the past 3 points I raised, and keeping them in mind, simply telling us to be careful when we install the thing is not going to cut it. The truth is uttorrent deliberately deceived its users and compounded this with making it hard to "opt-out" of the added softwares and even worse making hard to remove them after the fact. As far as common sense would dictate, one can assume "buyer beware' only to a point and after that we have to call it trickery and deception.

So lets be honest here, is it my fault if your softwares install is loaded with extra unwanted software and an obscure "opt-out' procedure, and an even more obscure removal process after the fact, or is it your deliberate deception and obfuscation which caused this issue? Common sense says its yours, decency says its yours, but for some reason right now "legally", you can do this to people and get away with it. Right now, as in currently that is the way of things, BUT hopefully not for long.

Eventually enough companies like yourselves will become greedy to the point its intolerable and legislation will come. Legislation which in my opinion will limit freedoms of both the companies and the clients. Then we will have new problems stemming from that which will lead to even more legislation and more limitations, and all of this will be due to the fact people and companies like yourselves could not warrant their greed with common sense and integrity.

I am not a corporate or a civil attorney, these are not my areas of expertise and I cannot say definitively as to the legality of this, but I do know of petitions and various other avenues which address this type of thing, and I plan to sign every one of them I can find. This kind of thing must be stopped and if the companies and people behind them cannot control their greed, this is the only recourse.

I am currently removing all instances of utorrent, and its affiliated software, and will actively pursue warning everyone I know of this new business model and practices. Further I plan to sign every petition and support any and all legislation which address this and similar practices.

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About once a month I reboot my computer and the entire contents of the uTorrent download file

is gone. GONE!!! Why? It wasn't funny last month, and it dang sure ain't funny today.

Is this a bug or my computer funning me? I lost 9 files that have been cooking for 3 weeks (two

of them) It is a pain to have to go searching for the torrent download. Maybe BitComet won't bite

me in the butt, huh?

Why does uTorrent all of a sudden decide to dump my download file. I'm running v3.2.3.

Surely someone has knowledge of this phenomenon and can share a procedure to fix it

from happening again.

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Hmm curiously, your other post tells a slightly different story

http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=125880

I rebooted my computer yesterday and when i tried to

open uTorrent Plus, I was forced to reenter all date,

losing some stuff I was downloading. Is there any way

to recapture those items I lost?

And I don't know why it happened. But this was not

the first time; it was the second. Any ideas?

If I have to eat it, fine. I'd just like to know if it can be

avoided in future

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The trick is to OBSERVE when you are installing

By no stretch of the imagination could it be deemed as "hidden" or "obscure"

http://chrishirst.is-my-name.com/utorrent/setup/06-setup.png

http://chrishirst.is-my-name.com/utorrent/setup/08-setup.png

http://chrishirst.is-my-name.com/utorrent/setup/09-setup.png

I've been a loyal user of uTorrent for many years -- but no longer. Like the original poster, I recently ran the online update to 3.2.3. Without my permission, the Toolbar was added, my home page was hijacked, and my default browser search engine was reset to "Bing". I did receive all of these windows, and very carefully read and chose NOT to install the toolbar. it got installed anyway. Just to be sure, I downloaded the full install package from the uTorrent website, uninstalled my previous copy, and ran a clean installation. This time I didn't even get the permission screen, it simply installed the toolbar and re-hijacked my browser with no further notification. I echo the original poster's sense of outrage, and I find myself wondering if ciaobaby in his arrogance is merely uninformed or deliberately misstating the facts.

I'll be reinstalling my file copy of the older 3.2 version, and never again be foolish enough to check for "updates".

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The trick is to OBSERVE when you are installing

By no stretch of the imagination could it be deemed as "hidden" or "obscure"

http://chrishirst.is-my-name.com/utorrent/setup/06-setup.png

http://chrishirst.is-my-name.com/utorrent/setup/08-setup.png

http://chrishirst.is-my-name.com/utorrent/setup/09-setup.png

Yes, and the trick you should employ is READING THE POST FULLY...

From browsing these forums when I first realized this issue, I noticed you posted roughly the same post to another who had the same issue. I remembered your tagline... Either you didn't read enough of the post to grasp it, or you are so eager to defend the business model and practices, you didn't care to. Either way the point I made remains. The install is deceptive, and the standard uninstall is ineffective IF a mistake is made.

You can't use the "pay attention to the steps' excuse if your standard uninstaller doesn't remove the software anyway. What if there wasn't a mistake, and you agreed to all of the things simply because you trusted utorrent? Found you didn't like the extra software and wanted to uninstall it? Well you couldn't very well do that, you have have to go in each effected browser individually, and remove the programs from there. Then you have to repair your search engines, your homepage, and in cases like mine you will still have to go into the registry and remove the references to it in the control panel.

Your logic is fundamentally flawed on this. This kind of excuse won't cut it if the software won't uninstall properly. Mistakes and errors in judgement can and do happen, however that does not give impunity to utorrent, to irresponsibly manipulate that to turn a profit. If a person decides they do not want to use Utorrent after finding all the added softwares and hijacked browser and search redirects, they can't simply uninstall them and opt out. If they just run the standard uninstall they are still stuck with a search conduit homepage and redirected searches. Even if they change their homepage back it sends them to conduit search. So in essence, utorrent or conduit will still make revenue from them even though they distinctly chose not to allow it.

utorrent and conduit have found a legal grey area to hide in, and use "buyer beware" as a shield after the fact. But again, here is the problem.

Conduit is recognized as a browser and search hijacker, by virtually all the major pc security software companies. It's not listed as a helpful browser enhancer, or search helper, but as a hijacker and re-directer. More plainly they view it, and treat as malware or malicious software. They view it that way and state it as such yet utorrent deceptively installs it in systems, and worse feels its okay to simply leave it in there even if the users change their minds or make a mistake in the install.

There is such a thing as culpability. It basically means, the more you know about the manner and nature of an action you may undertake, the more responsible you are for that action. They knew the install was deceptive, they also knew the uninstall was ineffective, and they also knew the added conduit software was listed and recognized as malicious, yet they chose to install and leave it in systems anyway. And to compound that they maintain the pretense it is somehow our fault.

I'll just say there will be a reckoning for this kind of practice. Sooner or later people will have had enough and companies like these will end up having to justify their actions. When that day comes, I hope they have a better defense than "pay attention or we can install malware in your pc"..

PS. IN your second picture you posted, I see an option to set homepage to utorrent search, use utorrent search as my default search provider, and lastly to agree with the terms and so on. Where in that does it warn me that my searches and homepage will be redirected and i will have trouble changing it back? Also the check boxes are grayed out, where they grayed out after deselecting them or are they already grayed out? My point being without the toolbar is my browser still redirected or not? From what I have read it seems many people wonder the same thing.

It seems when taken in context your picture helps my case...

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Ah I see, you have decided that "hiding in plain sight" is obscure.

The choices are there and OBVIOUS, there is no "hidden installation", maybe the uninstall doesn't remove the "addons" because someone decided that nobody would be [insert your own intelligence insulting word or phrase] enough to miss the VERY obvious "I don't want these" steps and then blame some body else for the fact YOU DID install them or allow them to be installed.

There is no "legal grey area", as the Gator case was regarding hidden installations and/or "drive by" installers.

The uTorrent/bitTorrent additional installs are highly visible and able to be left out of the installation as you can see from the screenshots I took during a clean installation of the latest 3.2.3. version. and there are no toolbars on my system and no additional unwanted applications. So contrary to your vitriolic rant, the cause of the unwanted toolbars etc. Is YOU. The source may be from a uTorrent installer but you do have the option to NOT install them.

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Ah I see, you have decided that "hiding in plain sight" is obscure.

The choices are there and OBVIOUS, there is no "hidden installation", maybe the uninstall doesn't remove the "addons" because someone decided that nobody would be [insert your own intelligence insulting word or phrase] enough to miss the VERY obvious "I don't want these" steps and then blame some body else for the fact YOU DID install them or allow them to be installed.

There is no "legal grey area", as the Gator case was regarding hidden installations and/or "drive by" installers.

The uTorrent/bitTorrent additional installs are highly visible and able to be left out of the installation as you can see from the screenshots I took during a clean installation of the latest 3.2.3. version. and there are no toolbars on my system and no additional unwanted applications. So contrary to your vitriolic rant, the cause of the unwanted toolbars etc. Is YOU. The source may be from a uTorrent installer but you do have the option to NOT install them.

Sorry,, ciaobaby ... my experience as posted above doesn't bear out your claims. Just because there is a visible permission screen, doesn't mean that those permissions will actually be used. As a sidenote, the permission screen for the Toolbar installer has been change from 3.2 to 3.2.3 -- the 3.2 installer (while defaulting to permissions checked), allows the user to uncheck the boxes and avoid installation of the toolbar - the 3.2.3 installer has those installation options greyed out (as you can see from the screens you posted yourself).

gslack ... as it happens, the uTorrent toolbar is set up as a separate installable ... you can still remove it using the Windows control panel "Programs and Features" option, but due to alphabetization issues, it's at the other end of the program list. Once you find it, though, uninstallation goes smoothly. Not sure whether that resets your home page and search engine browser options, though.

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Just because there is a visible permission screen, doesn't mean that those permissions will actually be used.
And who's place is it TO USE THOSE PERMISSIONS???

Actually it was I who unchecked the box, which is all that needs to be done. And yes, just like every other installer for free applications AND many retail software installs, taciturn permission is assumed UNLESS the end user takes action to deny or remove that permission.

I have yet to come across an installer or registration form that defaults to not sending "offers from our partners or third parties" or not installing "addons", and you have to deliberately choose to have them.

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Ah I see, you have decided that "hiding in plain sight" is obscure.

The choices are there and OBVIOUS, there is no "hidden installation", maybe the uninstall doesn't remove the "addons" because someone decided that nobody would be [insert your own intelligence insulting word or phrase] enough to miss the VERY obvious "I don't want these" steps and then blame some body else for the fact YOU DID install them or allow them to be installed.

There is no "legal grey area", as the Gator case was regarding hidden installations and/or "drive by" installers.

The uTorrent/bitTorrent additional installs are highly visible and able to be left out of the installation as you can see from the screenshots I took during a clean installation of the latest 3.2.3. version. and there are no toolbars on my system and no additional unwanted applications. So contrary to your vitriolic rant, the cause of the unwanted toolbars etc. Is YOU. The source may be from a uTorrent installer but you do have the option to NOT install them.

The choices are not obvious and given the fact mistakes DO happen the ability to uninstall with at least equal effort as the install is not only reasonable but expected. You can argue the installs clarity all you want, the fact remains the software it adds IS malware and listed as such by most major security programs. Malware that although easily installed is difficult to remove.

That's where the thing becomes more than what you imply here. Why the difficulty to remove it? It only takes one lapse in attention to install it but it takes a lot of steps to remove it.

This added software isn't a simple toolbar one can remove after the fact, like google or yahoo. This is a browser hijacker and search re-directer. With all the claims that it's so obvious in the install process, can you please point out where it asks me if I want my browser hijacked and searches re-directed, or the part where it tells me the difficulty I will have removing it?..

Please point those parts of the install out to me...

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Ah I see' date=' you have decided that "hiding in plain sight" is obscure.

The choices are there and OBVIOUS, there is no "hidden installation", maybe the uninstall doesn't remove the "addons" because someone decided that nobody would be [insert your own intelligence insulting word or phrase'] enough to miss the VERY obvious "I don't want these" steps and then blame some body else for the fact YOU DID install them or allow them to be installed.

There is no "legal grey area", as the Gator case was regarding hidden installations and/or "drive by" installers.

The uTorrent/bitTorrent additional installs are highly visible and able to be left out of the installation as you can see from the screenshots I took during a clean installation of the latest 3.2.3. version. and there are no toolbars on my system and no additional unwanted applications. So contrary to your vitriolic rant, the cause of the unwanted toolbars etc. Is YOU. The source may be from a uTorrent installer but you do have the option to NOT install them.

Sorry,, ciaobaby ... my experience as posted above doesn't bear out your claims. Just because there is a visible permission screen, doesn't mean that those permissions will actually be used. As a sidenote, the permission screen for the Toolbar installer has been change from 3.2 to 3.2.3 -- the 3.2 installer (while defaulting to permissions checked), allows the user to uncheck the boxes and avoid installation of the toolbar - the 3.2.3 installer has those installation options greyed out (as you can see from the screens you posted yourself).

gslack ... as it happens, the uTorrent toolbar is set up as a separate installable ... you can still remove it using the Windows control panel "Programs and Features" option, but due to alphabetization issues, it's at the other end of the program list. Once you find it, though, uninstallation goes smoothly. Not sure whether that resets your home page and search engine browser options, though.

Yes the toolbar is listed in my control panel/uninstall, however it will not uninstall from there. I can click it all day and it does nothing. Something got messed up in the registry which i have to fix. Most likely the fact it installs the extra softwares using separate installers but from the same main installer. I will take care of that, but the problem wouldn't be a problem if utorrent behaved responsibly..

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As far as this being a legal gray area...

Even Wikkipedia recognizes it as a browser hijacker...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_hijacker#Conduit_Search

a bigger picture on malware...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malware

Again they currently get away with it, that will change.

Found this interesting older story...

http://torrentfreak.com/conduit-bans-torrent-and-p2p-words-on-browser-toolbars-091230/

Seems conduit banned torrent and other p2p words in their searches... So please explain the reason a torrent software would work with them? Seems counterproductive doesn't it? Yeah so when they try to tell me how the toolbar will help me use utorrent more effectively I can assume thats just a lie...

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Just because there is a visible permission screen, doesn't mean that those permissions will actually be used.
And who's place is it TO USE THOSE PERMISSIONS???

Actually it was I who unchecked the box, which is all that needs to be done. And yes, just like every other installer for free applications AND many retail software installs, taciturn permission is assumed UNLESS the end user takes action to deny or remove that permission.

I have yet to come across an installer or registration form that defaults to not sending "offers from our partners or third parties" or not installing "addons", and you have to deliberately choose to have them.

You seem to be missing the point of my post. Let me try again:

(1) While running 3.2, I received a status message advising me of a new updated version. I agreed to the overall installation, and received in sequence the same three installation screens that you received. At no poiint did I give permission for the installation of the toolbar (while I'm glad you unchecked your screen, mine had no such option .. it was greyed out when it first appeared. I verified that I had not agreed to the terms of service (i.e., verifying that the third button was unchecked), before proceeding with the update installation. THE NEW TOOLBAR, THE NEW HOMEPAGE AND THE NEW BROWSER SEARCH ENGINE WERE INSTALLED ANYWAY. Please don't tell me about "tactiturn permissions" (and the word you were going for was "tacit", btw). I DID NOT GIVE PERMISSION, I DID NOT ACCEPT THE TERMS OF SERVICE, AND THE TOOLBAR WAS INSTALLED ANYWAY.

(2) In order to verify that this behavior was deliberate, I completely uninstalled uTorrent, and downloaded a fresh installation copy of 3.2.3., to do a completely clean install. During that clean installation, only the first of your three permission windows were displayed - the latter two were completely missing, and the Toolbar was installed again, the browser homepage was reset again, and the default search engine was reset again. FOR THE FULL CLEAN INSTALLATION, I WAS NOT SHOWN PERMISSION SCREENS ASKING IF I WANTED THE TOOLBAR INSTALLATION - THE TOOLBAR/HOMEPAGE/SEARCH ENGINE WAS INSTALLED SILENTLY AND AUTOMATICALLY..

If you would care to address these points, I will certainly listen to what you have to say.-- but do not waste your time and mine by implying that I'm just a "dumb user" (with thirty years IT experience) who couldn't have possibly understood what he was doing or what he saw happening..

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Yes the toolbar is listed in my control panel/uninstall, however it will not uninstall from there. I can click it all day and it does nothing. Something got messed up in the registry which i have to fix. Most likely the fact it installs the extra softwares using separate installers but from the same main installer. I will take care of that, but the problem wouldn't be a problem if utorrent behaved responsibly..

well, here's what worked for me ... YMMV. (Running Firefox 17.0.1, Windows 7 x64)

1. I pulled up the Firefox Add-Ons Manager (Tools -> Add-ons), and found the entry to the uTorrent toolbar, and clicked on the corresponding "Remove" button

2. I pulled up the "Manage Search Engines" window (drop down menu on the Search box), removed the Bing search engine entry, and reset my default search engine back to Google)

3.I reset my home page URL to its previous value via Tools -> Options -> General

4. I closed my browser then sucessfully uninstalled the Toolbar application itself, using Control Panel's "Programs and Features" window.

All I can think of is that you couldn't do the uninstall if was somehow flagged as being in use by your browser. Hope that helps you some, anyway.

-Additional Firefox Information-

I discovered that the Conduit Toolbar installation also resets some of the Firefox configuration settings. To find and fix them, do the following:

- Type "about:config" (minus the quotes) in the browser URL box, to pull up a complete listing of all the configuration settings

- Enter "Conduit" (w/o quotes again) in the search box appearing at the top of the listings, to get the specific settings modified by the Conduit installer

- Do not delete any keys, but replace the key VALUES (where the strings containing Conduit are) with nulls (I just highlighted each entire value, then hit the delete key, then OK). The null value will return the key setting to the browser default.

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Yes the toolbar is listed in my control panel/uninstall' date=' however it will not uninstall from there. I can click it all day and it does nothing. Something got messed up in the registry which i have to fix. Most likely the fact it installs the extra softwares using separate installers but from the same main installer. I will take care of that, but the problem wouldn't be a problem if utorrent behaved responsibly..[/quote']

well, here's what worked for me ... YMMV. (Running Firefox 17.0.1, Windows 7 x64)

1. I pulled up the Firefox Add-Ons Manager (Tools -> Add-ons), and found the entry to the uTorrent toolbar, and clicked on the corresponding "Remove" button

2. I pulled up the "Manage Search Engines" window (drop down menu on the Search box), removed the Bing search engine entry, and reset my default search engine back to Google)

3.I reset my home page URL to its previous value via Tools -> Options -> General

4. I closed my browser then sucessfully uninstalled the Toolbar application itself, using Control Panel's "Programs and Features" window.

All I can think of is that you couldn't do the uninstall if was somehow flagged as being in use by your browser. Hope that helps you some, anyway.

-Additional Firefox Information-

I discovered that the Conduit Toolbar installation also resets some of the Firefox configuration settings. To find and fix them, do the following:

- Type "about:config" (minus the quotes) in the browser URL box, to pull up a complete listing of all the configuration settings

- Enter "Conduit" (w/o quotes again) in the search box appearing at the top of the listings, to get the specific settings modified by the Conduit installer

- Do not delete any keys, but replace the key VALUES (where the strings containing Conduit are) with nulls (I just highlighted each entire value, then hit the delete key, then OK). The null value will return the key setting to the browser default.

I have it removed from both firefox and google chrome, at least in the manner mentioned and it still sits in my control panel/uninstall. I found the folder and tried to run the uninstaller from there but got the same results as before from the uninstall from the control panel. I will try your last recommendation and see what that gets me.

UPDATE: Found that the search bar was still using utorrent control ver 2 DESPITE the fact it was removed from the addons... Seems I have to go in and manage the search engines separately. Deleted the conduit search engine and restarted, still can't uninstall it yet.. If there was any doubt of the nature of this added software, this should end that. The fact is this IS MALWARE and utorrent proliferates it.

EDIT: Okay tried your last fix and still won't uninstall... I am pretty much disgusted with utorrent, conduit, and any other company which uses this kind of garbage...

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