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AdamK

3.4.x Beta

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It makes you wonder then why they (the µTorrent "boffins") added it in the first place.

What on earth were they thinking of? :D

 

there may be a way for P2P streaming, such as the way Netflix is supposedly considering (to avoid paying ISP's and other networks for a "fast lane"), but without further information from Bittorent Inc developers, all we can guess right now is they deemed it to be broken in some way, be it directly or indirectly affecting the network negatively.

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Oh, but I do also detect a certain condescending manner. Being right does not excuse it though. :)

Believe me, I know, I tend to be the same way.

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you are mistaking a percieved tone, as there is no condscendence at all, simply i'm agreeing with you when you say you don't know enough about the topic, and we're educating you further to change that.

 

If you're uncomfortable having conversations with poeple about topics you know less about, don't be offended just because the conversation went in a direction they knew more about....especially when you brough the subject up in the first palce.

 

Don't like it? then don't go there.

 

"I admit i don't have a very deep knowledge of how the algorithms work, nor am I trying to act like I do."

 

that's not true, because you said previously you "don't see how it makes a difference...i'm no expert, maybe it does do something, but i doubt it DESTROYS the swarm.", so we tried to inform you about the very details you thought you were certain of.

 

if anything you're complaining somewone bothered to educate you against your own admitted ignorance.

 

no pleasing some poeple.

 

"What I'm sure of is that this is no simple matter. How a certain number of "streamers" would affect the behavior of a swarm is a relatively complicated math problem, and I seriously doubt that you have done any real calculation other than speculating"

 

really?

 

you aren't sure of your OWN knowledge, but you ARE sure no one else can know more than you ? priceless arrogance for sure, right in the face of two people telling you already how your ideas for selfish leeching affects the network. Nope, we can't know more than you, absolutly lol.

 

"And, since the feature has been here for years, it seems that the developers didn't think it was a problem either."

 

Riiiight......, we don't know what we're talking about, and you admit you don't either, but the fact the feature was there for sometime aparently supports you own opinion, while you ignore the fact it was just removed can't possibly support OUR opinion ?

 

again, priceless confirmation bias of the arrogant mind.

 

whether the feature was removed for reasons of a permanent change of develoepemnt, or a temporary removal to fix something that broke in the feature, it's amazing how your single-minded bias means you simultaneoulsy can't be wrong about the feature, and we can't know more than you.

 

<slow clap>

 

such a huge post just to insult me, without actually explaining anything.

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Oh, but I do also detect a certain condescending manner. Being right does not excuse it though. :)

Believe me, I know, I tend to be the same way.

 

a common hallucination when one individual dislikes the means of a communication. the narcissist's distraction, and a way to argue by moving the goal-posts to win.

 

Just because you dislike the means, does not make it condescending, that's simply attempting the "oppression olympics" by playing the "you offended me" card.

 

There's no arrogance from me here, no sense of "this is below me" (if it was i wouldn't invest the time would i?) and there's no sense of superiority by demonstrating vast knowledge beyond the scope of the topic.

 

i'm simply not agreeing with his assertions and not pandering to his thinly veiled attempts to use disclaimers when he said things like "i'm not an expert but, i don't see how it would make a difference...i am sure it wouldn't break the swarm...What I'm sure of is that this is no simple matter", etc.

 

you see who's making the assertions from a point of percieved authority ?

 

if you're going to make such an assertion, at least be correct, and when someone else knows even a little more than you, you don't get to make it personal by being offended at the "condescending tone" by which they addresed your assertions.

 

Egotisticallt fragile poeple take it personally and lose focus of the topic, because they have priorities about how you have to have "civil conversations", etc, thinking "this guy is a jerk, you have no right to talk to me like that", or– the standard maneuver when narcissism is confronted with authority and/or a greater knowledge– quietly seethe and fantasize about finding information that will out him as a hypocrite. So satisfying !

 

you can never lose a battle of you keep changing the rules right ?

 

disqualifiers like that are ways of saying "see, i told you i wasn't an expert", while leaving the door open to "being right" if it all works out as planned. Isn't it great when you can never be wrong, but no one else can be right either ?

 

it's classic cowardice, where you get to make the gamble to show you know something, but you leave an exit to claim you werent making an authorirve assertion at the same time. it's win-win.

 

when someone doesn't tolerate such Narcissistic cowardice, that's not "condescending", that's simply not playing ball with cowards :)

 

what's next, complaining it makes them feel uncomfortable when they see big words ?

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such a huge post just to insult me, without actually explaining anything.

 

see? there you go again, all you hear are personal attacks on you.....

 

anyway, back on topic, the feature i think was removed because the network couldn't sustain the feature as it was implemented. So either changes are being made to it to be more resilient with an ever growing scale of users, or it simply gone for a much more permanant amount of time.

 

P2P streaming at this scale is a non-trivial task indeed.

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see? there you go again, all you hear are personal attacks on you.....

 

anyway, back on topic, the feature i think was removed because the network couldn't sustain the feature as it was implemented. So either changes are being made to it to be more resilient with an ever growing scale of users, or it simply gone for a much more permanant amount of time.

 

P2P streaming at this scale is a non-trivial task indeed.

 

 

my good sir, what you said in your previous post is a complete misinterpretatation of my earlier comments. I am a grad student of computer sciences and have a decent knowledge of graph theory in general, as I took several courses regarding that matter. Anyway, enough to know (as Socrates himself would say) that I don't know anything.

 

You said it yourself, just to confirm my previous statement, that "this is no trivial task indeed". It really is a complicated math problem.

 

And, as if to prove my point, you said that you THINK (with no math background to prove it, whatsoever) that the feature was removed to make the network more resilient. And as I said, I seriously doubt that this is the real reason.

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Please stop!

Open a new thread for you two if you like to talk of filosophy or to insult each other. ;)

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What about the solution to put a brake to the constant crashes? :P

 

Do I stay with 3.0 forever? :D

Personally, I don't mind as the purpose of using utorrent is met, it's just I like to keep everything up - to - date :D :D

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my good sir, what you said in your previous post is a complete misinterpretatation of my earlier comments. I am a grad student of computer sciences and have a decent knowledge of graph theory in general, as I took several courses regarding that matter. Anyway, enough to know (as Socrates himself would say) that I don't know anything.

 

You said it yourself, just to confirm my previous statement, that "this is no trivial task indeed". It really is a complicated math problem.

 

And, as if to prove my point, you said that you THINK (with no math background to prove it, whatsoever) that the feature was removed to make the network more resilient. And as I said, I seriously doubt that this is the real reason.

 

"I am a grad student of computer sciences and have a decent knowledge of graph theory in general, as I took several courses regarding that matter"

 

So what?

 

i own and run a consultancy firm speciaising in analytical and cognitive processing, i'm probably older and more experienced than you, but let's not having an E-peen contest shall we ?

 

you initially said you don't believe it would make a difference and how you i'm sure it would not destroy the swarm, and when multiple people try to educate you, you refuse to accept the data.

 

so no, your point has not been "proven" in the slightest, the only thing proven is how you constantly believe other people can't possibly know more than you, even bringing your own acedemic qualifications into the matter as an appeal to authority, again, as if no one can possibly know more than you.

 

serioulsy, you challenge the knowledge of stangers without even having a leg to stand on to prove you're right in the first place.

 

If you want to discuss technical reasons why the Torrent network should be able to sustain streaming then why have you not done so ? The obvious answer is simply because you DON'T have such knowledge, as you've admitted already, but when other epople DO have that knowledge, you refuse to accept it.

 

Like i said, you're not qualified to have the discussion, yet you pretend your opinion is more valid than the poeple who know more than you about the topic.

 

so far you've only proved your apearence as a narcissist suffering from confrmation bias.

 

Anyway, this has lost any entertainment value it may have had, so let's get back on topic.

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From the older thread:

lwiczek, on 28 Jan 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:snapback.png

 

With the latest 4.3.1 above behaviour is still happening and it's suuuuper annoying :/

 

I confirm this too. 

 

It is a bug that leads kicking from several versions back.   :(

 

My version is 3.4.1 Build 30971

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i own and run a consultancy firm speciaising in analytical and cognitive processing, i'm probably older and more experienced than you, but let's not having an E-peen contest shall we ?

I find it patently ridiculous when fifteen year olds feel the need to tell everyone they own consultancy firms specializing in yoda-yoda. To begin, you misspelled the word specializing and failed to capitalize and correctly punctuate at least as many sentences as you effectively did so. Next, analytical and cognitive processing are in the realm of neuroscience, not computer science (unless you've perfected the positronic brain as in the writings of Asimov). Just so you know, the shift keys are next to the "Z" and "/" on most English keyboards, barring DVORAK.

 

Random vs. Linear > In a torrent network in which pieces are chosen at random, linear access greatly weighs the rarest bits toward the end of the file, as more peers have piece one and so one. This harms the system when too much upload bandwidth is serving the first pieces and slim bandwidth is left for the end of the file. In practice, the harm has shown to be on the order of several milliseconds delay in receiving the rarest bit versus random order. This delay is actually seen most in the end users who are in linear configuration. There are bandaids for the harm caused by this topology, such as piece prioritization in bandwidth allocation on the seed side, which obviate the harm or even improve the ecosystem (id est, seed boxes have better load characteristics across the arc of the file, as more of the file is seeded by all the aggregate leeches combined so even hit and run users are serving up a good piece of the pie).

 

Regardless, I have a feeling the feature was pulled to revamp it in a later version. This isn't the first time it has disappeared, either.

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I find it patently ridiculous when fifteen year olds feel the need to tell everyone they own consultancy firms specializing in yoda-yoda. To begin, you misspelled the word specializing and failed to capitalize and correctly punctuate at least as many sentences as you effectively did so. Next, analytical and cognitive processing are in the realm of neuroscience, not computer science (unless you've perfected the positronic brain as in the writings of Asimov). Just so you know, the shift keys are next to the "Z" and "/" on most English keyboards, barring DVORAK.

 

Random vs. Linear > In a torrent network in which pieces are chosen at random, linear access greatly weighs the rarest bits toward the end of the file, as more peers have piece one and so one. This harms the system when too much upload bandwidth is serving the first pieces and slim bandwidth is left for the end of the file. In practice, the harm has shown to be on the order of several milliseconds delay in receiving the rarest bit versus random order. This delay is actually seen most in the end users who are in linear configuration. There are bandaids for the harm caused by this topology, such as piece prioritization in bandwidth allocation on the seed side, which obviate the harm or even improve the ecosystem (id est, seed boxes have better load characteristics across the arc of the file, as more of the file is seeded by all the aggregate leeches combined so even hit and run users are serving up a good piece of the pie).

 

Regardless, I have a feeling the feature was pulled to revamp it in a later version. This isn't the first time it has disappeared, either.

 

"15 year olds eh?

 

your flattery is proportional to how terribly mistaken you are, as for the rest of your off-topic and irrelevant personal attacks, i'll not dignify them.

 

It's also interesting how you believe the realms of cognitive processing and analystics have no relation to today's computer networking, perhaps you're thinkikng about those relams from over 30 years ago, but we'll leave your ignorance of such matters alone, as you clearly have other problems best addressed first.

 

.

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Nevermind veering woefully offtopic, I'm amazed you guys are still on about that.

My flightless friend, you have to realize, within the context of the internet, a manner of expression such as yours is unambiguously viewed as "trolling".

 

On a side note, uT is still regularly crashing every few hours of runtime.

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no trolling at all, just not pandering to cowards.

 

Anyway, i've yet to experience any of the crashing some users here have been suffering, and i've been using all the latest builds for the last month or so.

 

my issue has been the Labels being "stuck", where we can't edit their directories, etc, but apart from that everything seems stable on my end.

 

I can't think what hardware/software combination could be causing the instability we're hearing about recently :(

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rafi, when you update your list of known issues do you actually test every single one of those or just tick off whatever's mentioned in the changelog?

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Every newly found one or fixed ones  they mention in the log is tested. Old ones are not re-tested, so they might have been silently fixed.  You are welcome to test them all and update us....

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The current 'beta' is older than the current 'stable' release... this doesn't make any sense. Beta should always be the latest release + changes / fixes that aren't 100% ready yet.

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Speaking of woefully inadequate the post above mine is just that. Welcome to the "stable" branch.

 

Hey bittorrent could you guys develop software like everyone else? point releases don't have betas and for good reason.. they just fix various bugs without causing more issues.

Development should be done like this.

3.4.1 stable (update build numbers for small changes)

3.4.2 beta (collection of bug fixes not fully tested, constant nightly updates not required as it should be tested fully) Released as beta 1, beta 2, RC etc (no more than 3 RCs if you need more you're doing it wrong)

3.5 or 3.4.3 Nightly (includes all fixes not yet released from 3.4.2)

 

All changes MUST be documented, not doing so is just pure laziness and bad programming practice. It's not hard to update a text file and accompany the product with it.

And for the love of god, get ONE person to address/monitor and update the forum and keep them there.

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