Peer is taking 80% of my upload

[B2K24]

Theres mainline clients taking alot of my upload and giving me 2KB really sucks how do I tell utorrent

to cut them off or ban there IP?

Im using the new beta version

[DreadWingKnight]

How do you know they're not uploading to someone else?

Simple, you don't.

Therefore, you don't ban them.

[Ultima]

And this is the very reason why manual banning/kicking will not be implemented -- because most people think they know what's best for the swarm, when it isn't necessarily the case. Uploading to more people means nothing. So long as one peer you upload to uploads to other people you could've been uploading to, it makes no difference how many peers are downloading from you directly.

[B2K24]

What do you mean I do not know?

When i click the pear tab i see ips and different clients people use there is also download/upload numbers which i assume relate to me.

because I add all the upload numbers from the diff peers which equal my consistant upload, same concept for the download aspect.

I upload 40KB consistantly and have 5 upload slots set yet on the peer tab I see 1 user getting 30-35 of my upload while only getting a lousy return.

So far the only way to stop this is stop the torrent for a few moments then start again and hope you upload to a client that shares.

Why can't it know when your uploading to 1 client and not getting anything back when your not seeding?

I do want ban power when some idiot on a damn shareazza or mainline 4.4.4 client takes all my damn upload in a public torrent.

Why can't it divide it among the swarm?

[Yenkaz]

Bittorent isen't stable like that, you can't control to whom your upload goes to, are you saying that you've never downloaded from someone without returning much to that paticular peer, while uploading alot to someone else?

[Switeck]

Is your µTorrent firewalled?

If so, it vastly cuts out predominately fast broadband connections, as naturally they are more likely than 'broadband lite' and dial-up connections to have software firewalls and routers that aren't properly configured.

If you're uploading to them for many minutes on end despite getting NOTHING back AND being connected to numerous other peers, then you MAY have found a rare leech.

However, you've said they are uploading back -- just at only 2 KB/sec.

Still, the BitTorrent Protocol SHOULD be automatically seeking better peers for you to upload to...so tit-for-tat is more balanced.

In other words, as you've seen, µTorrent's ability to tit-for-tat is either broken...if this continues for more than 5 minutes straight...or possibly being exploited by a hostile BT client. And I wouldn't be surprised if it's really a fake Mainstream BT client too!

[DreadWingKnight]

What you see in the peers tab is their communication with you, and ONLY their communication with you.

What you don't see is their communication with everyone they're connected to.

It's people like you that mean that we will NEVER have a right-click and ban function.

[Ultima]

@B2K24: Did you even read my post? Even if he's not returning anything back to you, who's to say he's not returning anything back to the swarm in general? If you ban him, you're only slowing the swarm down and breaking its balance. Sure, we're assuming that this person isn't actually a leecher, but would you rather assume everyone who downloads quickly is one? That's a pretty bleak point of view, if you ask me. As Yenkaz asked, are you sure you haven't downloaded at insane speeds from someone without returning everything even a fifth as quickly, simply because your upload can't keep up with your download?

[emtec666]

If you ban him, you're only slowing the swarm down and breaking its balance.

Actually not true in some cases: my ISP gives (huge) priority to peers within it's own network. If such a peer is in the swarm he can take 80-90% of my upload bandwidth, without having to give even 1 Kb/s back. It's pretty easy to check: 1 peer is @ 40 % for instance and the rest @ 10% after a given time on an upload. If I ban him (using Azureus) the upload speed stays the same but gets divided among the other peers again, and actually restoring the balance (an equal distribution of pieces) in the swarm.

[Ultima]

There are a lot of "what ifs" with this kind of situation, so bans are best left to the client to decide. While the assumption that everyone is giving back might be flawed, it's still better than everyone banning whomever they *think* is leeching off the swarm. In that case, no one's going to be able to download. While that's an extreme view, I prefer to think of it in that way.

When I said it slows the swarm down, I didn't mean that it slows your upload down. By banning someone, it creates yet another blocked path that data can never be passed through. And equal distribution shouldn't be the goal -- unique pieces for each person should be (or at least close to that). Normal seeding doesn't do it very well, but a well-implemented super-seeding algorithm does.

[µtorrent-Guest]

emtec666 but to made this decision you must actually be connected to ALL other peers so you can really SEE that the "ban candidate" is in fact not uploading to others!

Just because he did not upload to YOU while you are also a non seeding peer is no proof for nothing and gives no ground for banning him.

[emtec666]

emtec666 but to made this decision you must actually be connected to ALL other peers so you can really SEE that the "ban candidate" is in fact not uploading to others!

Just because he did not upload to YOU while you are also a non seeding peer is no proof for nothing and gives no ground for banning him.

OK maybe I didn't make that clear: he doesn't upload to me because I only check this when I'm uploading a new torrent (initial seeder).

Yes I can see if he's not sharing, just by checking he's way ahead of the rest of the swarm.

When I download something I don't care and i don't check, but when I upload a new torrent I like to distribute the pieces and get as many new copies in the swarm ASAP.

And yes in theory a well implemented super-seeding algorith should do the trick but I haven't found a client that can do that, at least not for my upload speed (1 Mbit). Super-seeding worked well when I still had just 128 Kbit but at speeds above 512 Kb/s it's not so efficient.

Hence my argument that banning a peer can be useful for certain users in certain situations.

[µtorrent-Guest]

so that is some different situation. when you are the seeder then of course.

And for that there is the ipfilter.dat solution.

That works reliable. And because of that there will be NO kick and ban option for the morons out there that are not seeders and just beeing pissed that they get nothing from some peers back.

[B2K24]

I understand excactly what everyone is saying thanks for the replys.

But in reguards to big torrents over 10GB I noticed a HUGE portion of my upload was going to 1 peer

then small chunks to other peers 2KB 1KB even 0.1KB

with 6 seeders and 50 peers totall this makes no sense.

So im like ok I go AFK 12 hours then comeback check peers again and its pretty much the same.

Later I go to bed then after waking up Its still very similar.

This benifits the swarm excactly how?

Why dosen't it divide the upload accordingly or even just switch the peer maybe 1 time an hour.

[Yenkaz]

Why it doesn't devide the upload evenly?

Because it's impossible for client to handle such a thing! That'd require the client itself rapporting to EVERY SINGLE other client it's connected to and tell them how many packages it's receiving... which is just stupid and unrealistic.

Besides, people have different connections, which just makes it that much harder.

[Switeck]

It doesn't help the swarm if the superfast downloader is not a superfast uploader...if they're the ONLY one with a high % of the torrent.

Pretty much the only way 1 peer can get a huge % over the others is if all the other peers are choking too much due to overloaded connections. Usually their upload is overloaded trying to upload at unlimited speeds.

So 1 peer which set their upload speed well below their upload max speed (almost leeching) is ironically getting alot of everyone's upload bandwidth because they're the only one whose connection isn't overloaded.

Still, I'll spell it out for others who disagree so they know where I stand:

If you have ~40 KB/sec upload bandwidth.

And there's more than 5 peers connected to you that ALL are interested in parts you have.

And you're uploading at 35 KB/sec to 1 peer, with the remaining 4 getting about 0-2 KB/sec each.

And the 1 peer getting 35 KB/sec from you is uploading back to you at 2 KB/sec.

And the remaining 4 peers are uploading back to you at greater than 2 KB/sec each.

And this sustains for more than 5 minutes.

We can safely assume at least 1 of 2 things:

µTorrent's tit-for-tat system is hopelessly broken.

Or 1 peer is cheating.

[aspi8dos]

I do believe it should be possible to ban a peer I've got one particular peer (german ip) who takes up most of my upload this peer is not sharing he is not in the swarm. He has been leeching My torrents for weeks now. And before anyone sticks his foot in his mouth by making statements about something he dosen't have the facts relating to. This is fact there aren't that many downloading my torrents are specialised

[Game90]

it *might* be possible to determine if a peer is leeching in a small swarm, but definitely not in large swarms.

[Switeck]

Yes, you would have to be connected to EVERY peer in the torrent and see that the leeching peer is racing ahead in percent complete while everyone else is almost at a dead stop.

[µtorrent-Guest]

aspi8dos

"[...]by making statements about something he dosen't have the facts relating to."

You mean ...

....like you?

You, the seed/peer that is NOT the Trackeradmin and therefore can not see EVERY other swarm participant.

So how can you, from a technically standpoint, tell that he is a leech?

If you can go to the Patent Office. You will get very rich very fast if you have found a technique to proof/solve that problem!

What is so "specialised" at your torrents that this cretiria gives you this ability to tell?

<Humor>

let me guess it's its some freaking nazi stuff that only ONE person from austria and a handfull other stupid germans would want after all. And therefore you can tell that THIS görman Pöör is a leech!

is it he?

</humor>

[Ultima]

If you're connected to him, he's in the swarm, plain and simple.