Seed time value ignored

I have tested with various torrents and this is what happens:

1st torrent:Set to seed to 100% or for 1440minutes(=1day) --> Wont stop after 1day has passed if ratio isnt 1.0

2nd torrent:Set to seed to 60% or 180minutes --> Stopped at ratio 0.599 after ~5hours seeding

3rd test torrent: Set to seed to 100% or 3minutes --> Didnt stop after 3mins seeding

Because you misinterpreted the feature. There is a world of difference between "seed until ___% ratio or ___ minutes" (what you want) and "seed while <= ___% or <= ___ minutes" (how µTorrent actually behaves).

No bug. The manual even describes the feature quite clearly.

Eh? Describe the difference. This is my understanding of the seed time thingy.

Seed while seeding time is <=____ minutes.

equals: Seed while seeding time is less than or equal to ___ minutes.

Exactly like "seed for ___ minutes", just said differently. It would make zero sense if it meant "Seed ONLY while ratio is GREATER than 100% or seeding time is HIGHER than xxx minutes.

So what is the "<= ___ minutes" supposed to do but tell utorrent how long the torrent to be seeded until goal is reached. Exactly as "seed until ___% ratio or ___ minutes"

EDit: K read the manual on ur SIG:

Now a different bug report (not really a bug)

"seed while <= ___% or <= ___ minutes" (how µTorrent actually behaves)

The seeding time is field allows you to specify the minimum amount of time you wish for the torrent job to continue seeding at normal speeds after it has finished downloading. µTorrent will throttle the seeding process only after both this and the ratio threshold have been reached. This value is interpreted in minutes, so please enter it as such.

So uTorrent actually behaves like: (only if time value is met first, which happens often here)

"seed while ratio <= ___% AND time <= ___ minutes"

but client UI says: "seed while <= ___% or <= ___ minutes"

No, or is the correct word.

Think about it: if it only seeds while both criteria are met (and), then as soon as one passes the mark, it'll stop. Again, and would end up being the same behavior you want (which would mean it doesn't describe the actual behavior).

What? It causes me headache because uT actually seeds only when these criteria are met. And i think it the other way around. But and is not the feature i want, nor has it anything to do with queue_dont.count.slow.uploads.

See my dilemma: (hypothetical example but not far off)

10 torrents seeding ~6kb/s because 100 seeds and several leechers.

So the one torrent with 10 seeds and 100 leechers gets only 100kiB/s-(10*6kiB/s)=40kiB/s of upload.

If the slow torrents were stopped, then it would get the full 100kB/s

proof that uT behaves like "seed while ratio <= ___% AND time <= ___ minutes":

torrent X: "seed while ratio <= 60% or time <= 180 minutes"

but alas, uTorrent waits until BOTH are met as said in my post #1

2nd torrent:Set to seed to 60% or 180minutes --> Stopped at ratio 0.599 after ~5hours seeding

Because the ratio equation (Ratio<=60%) was false only after when seeding time was 5 hours. Long after the time equation was false (Seed time<=180minutes)

EDit2.

Sigh.. got it finally. It should be a bug if stuff is explained in a hard way

Yes, both conditions must be true. If you don't want 1 or the other, set them to ignore. You can do this on each torrent as well as the default values. NOTE: Changing default values won't affect existing torrents in the list. The values are copied per-torrent on-adding.

It does affect them, actually. By default, they're set to use whatever the default settings are at all times. You can override this and force torrents to use a particular ratio/time, though.

No kidding? Well that's good to hear. Now that I think about it... how could ETA dynamically update if that weren't the case. Thanks for that Firon.

I hate to disagree with anyone (no that's not passive agressive BS) however...

In this following example I think that I can clarify the entire situation and have posted a feature request (#2 or #3) in regards to the Global seeding settings under Queuing.

--------

Example:

A private torrent tracker requires one of the two following conditions to be met:

1.) An UL Ratio of 1:1 (100%) - Personally I always set my UL to 125-150% (the old native american saying, leave a place in the same or better condition than you found it)

OR - and this means OR (for programmers out there ||)

2.) A minimum of 72 hours (4320 minutes)

The problem is simple, I expect the client (as would most normal users, though I am far from a normal user being a professional developer for over 13 years and having written my own bittorrent client) to honor the lower of the two criteria.

I see that this is not how uTorrent is coded to work and I do believe that it is a bug in the implementation of requirements and implementation specifications of such a client.

The result is simple, I set seed ratio to 125%-150% (give more than I get) and as per many of my private tracker requirements I need to set a time limit as a backup in case there is no demand for the torrent contents which I am seeding so in the "OR" seeding length box (<=) to 4320. In this example (Real World), my seeding ratio reaches 150% which should stop the torrent amd make it "Inactive" since condition #1 (ratio) of the "OR" statement (again || for the programmers) has been met. The actual result is that the torrent will continue seeding until the full 4320 (72 hours) have completed.

As I have stated in previous posts, I am a firm believer in leaving things better than I found them (Giving back more than I get) but when I look some days later and see my ratio has reached 1000% I find that to be a problem since it seems obvious that with such interest and other seeders once I have reached my true goal of seeding back to a ratio of 150% has been met, I am doing nothing but wasting precious bandwidth which could be dedicated to other needing torrents.

I have made suggestion/request in the Requests forum for this feature of seeding ration <= X "OR" seeding time <= X be reworked to function as the UI states it does. At a minimum, users should be given a choice of true "AND"/"OR" operation which would allow the user to decide if even once the seeding ratio they specify has been met the seeding will continue until the "clock" runs out.

As always please feel free to reply to my comments here on the forum or use the form based email to reach me to discuss this further.

Regards,

spikeinpa

The key for why it works the way it does is the "seed while." If it was seed until, then it would work the way you want.

In previous versions I was always able to have my seeding stop when I set the limit to 115%. Now, it continues seeding until I remove the torrent. Something must have been changed along the way and I'd really like it to be changed back.

What are your queue values set to?

I see that this is not how uTorrent is coded to work and I do believe that it is a bug in the implementation of requirements and implementation specifications of such a client.

The result is simple, I set seed ratio to 125%-150% (give more than I get) and as per many of my private tracker requirements I need to set a time limit as a backup in case there is no demand for the torrent contents which I am seeding so in the "OR" seeding length box (<=) to 4320. In this example (Real World), my seeding ratio reaches 150% which should stop the torrent amd make it "Inactive" since condition #1 (ratio) of the "OR" statement (again || for the programmers) has been met. The actual result is that the torrent will continue seeding until the full 4320 (72 hours) have completed.

while (time <= blah || ratio <= bleh) {

// seed

}

As a programmer, you should clearly know what that implies. The logic carries over perfectly in real world operation, so no, in no way is this a bug in implementation. The choice to do this was deliberate (again, the manual spells the whole thing out quite clearly). Whether it should be changed/changeable is a different story (which has been requested plenty of times before).

Hah, I just wrote an explanation of the behavior for another thread, but it seems it was unnecessary, so instead of letting it go to waste, I'll post here:

Let's give an analogy:

[Keep the heater on] while [the temperature is below 41°F (5°C)] or [i'm shivering].

Tell me, if the temperature is 42°F, and I'm still shivering, would the above sentence mean that I want to turn the heater off? No. The above rule says that as long as the temperature is below 41°F or I'm shivering, the heater will stay on. Temperature no longer below 41°F? Who cares? I'm still shivering, so the heater stays on.

Let's generalize:

[DO SOMETHING] while [PROPOSITION A] is true or [PROPOSITION B] is true.

If [PROPOSITION A] is false, but [PROPOSITION B] is true, it will continue to [DO SOMETHING] (look back to the analogy if this is confusing). It'll stop only when both [PROPOSITION A] and [PROPOSITION B] are false simultaneously.

Let's relate this back to µTorrent:

[Continue seeding] while [ratio is below 1.5] or [seeding time is below 90 minutes].

If the ratio is above 1.5, but the seeding time is below 90 minutes, then at least one of the two conditions is true. That means it will continue seeding.

Hi@Forum. I think this is my first posting

So back to topic:

I just thought the clue should be to set the time condition to 1 minute (it should be reached very fast, eh) but the torrent won't stop although the percentage is also reached. Does the seeding time in this case mean the time the torrent is seeding exclusively or does it also take account on the time the torrent is seeding while downloading?

Thanks and kind regards!

Do the torrents have override conditions on them?

When conditions are met, did you tell uTorrent to stop the torrents?

I checked the "override default settings"-box in the properties of the single torrent. And of course i entered my values in the edit-boxes there.

What do you mean with:

When conditions are met, did you tell uTorrent to stop the torrents?

I thought the torrent should stop seeding automatically when conditions are met, "seed while" ... stands for that, doesn't it?

OK, now I tested it with a torrent which was only seeding. I checked the box, entered "1 minute" and (for testing) 6 percent but it didn't stop seeding. ETA was displayed correctly and when the conditions were met ETA wasn't displayed anymore (as i expected) but the torrent didn't stop. Meanwhile the seed ratio rose to 6.1% and is still seeding. Sometimes the torrent stops seeding and then it starts seeding again.

Screenshot of your queueing preferences.

Preferences > Queueing > When µTorrent reaches the seeding goal > "Limit the upload rate to"

"Seed While" is definitely ambiguous considering the actual behavior. I believe Smoovious, alus, and I discussed this a long time ago, but no consensus was ever made as to how else to word it (we did come up with ideas that I've since forgotten).

It's not ambiguous, it's just not what most users expect (since they don't read ).

while ( x == true || y == true)

seed

Oh, it's not the loop that's ambiguous, it's the fact that seeding doesn't necessarily stop just because both criteria become false. The only time it causes a torrent to stop is if "Limit the upload rate to" is set to 0, and it isn't even so by default (it's 4 by default). In that case, even after the seeding goal has been reached, seeding can continue even without user intervention (so it's not like it's a forced start). "Seed While" really isn't a suitable name, but suitable names are probably rather wordy, which is why I haven't pushed too hard for a change

It re-queues them and gives priority to other torrents if that option isn't set...