Adrenalin_ Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 1. Client generate a torrent2. User upload the torrent to the tracker3. User start the uploaded torrent, in his clientHow about to make the tracker to connect to the bittorrent client, after the torrent was uploaded to the traker ? Some kind of, "Wait for the tracker start command" ?So, "Wait for the tracker start command" compatible clients, at generation of the torrent, include a special integer key, "waitstart", with the value of the port.The setting of this flag must be in that way, what it doesn't change the unique torrent identificator. So the tracker can safely unset this flag.After upload, when the tracker see that "waitstart" flag, it take the ip of current uploading user, and connect to that port, and sending the unique identificator of the torrent. If the client have found such "waiting to start" torrents in his list, it start the torrent.Also the client should accept "waiting to start" command only from the tracker from the annonce list (but this is optional, some trackers can use separate servers with separate ips only for annonce). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Buzzard Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Doesn't work like that. Your client connects to the tracker, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenalin_ Posted February 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Your client connects to the tracker.Oh, really, are you joking !? Clients have some kind of central DHT servers, and they connect to them, also a tracker to determine if a peer is "Connectable" or not, it connect to the client.So, your point is not valid to not implement this feature. Trackers already connects to the clients, without asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Buzzard Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 No, the client connects to the tracker, always. Never the other way around, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultima Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 lol I don't think Adrenalin_ knows how DHT works...@Adrenalin_: You connect to the DHT network. It doesn't connect to you. And as TMB said, you connect to trackers. They don't connect to you. I've never heard of "push" torrenting O.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Buzzard Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Actually, other peers using DHT will keep trying to connect to you for a while, even if you shut your torrent client down. That's another story from trackers entirely though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultima Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Ah but then you'd have had to connect to the DHT network in the first place (aka you initiating the connection first). Besides, I was talking about the network itself, not the peers (though I agree with you about that) ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Buzzard Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenalin_ Posted February 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Ops, i was trying to say what there's no some writed rules about who to who are allowed to connect.So, are you saying what tracker don't connect to the clients to see if it is "connectable" or not ?I really don't see why this is a problem(tracker are not allowed to connect..etc).I'll better understand what this is not usseful ? But i really like the idea, it should generate not much traffic at all, implementation of this feature on the tracker side must be very easy (connect, send, end of story). And it will be look very fresh, you upload the torrent, and woow, the torrent start by it self ! Amazing ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultima Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 It's not how BitTorrent works... unless I'm misunderstanding your request. Trackers don't wait for people to connect, trackers just track/serve how many people are connected, and their IPs. It doesn't "start" torrents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Buzzard Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 I get what you're after. And yeah, trackers never try to connect to clients to see if they're online. The client is supposed to send a stop message to the tracker when you stop a torrent or the client exits but I assume they also have a timeout to drop any peers from the list who haven't checked in after however long.The reason trackers don't connect to peers is because it's quite a bit more efficient to do it the current way, in both server load and bandwidth. Since increasing either of those costs money, it's far easier to do it the current way.Now, if you were to suggest that the client repoll the tracker after a minute or two when it gets a reply from the tracker saying the torrent doesn't exist, that would be a good idea. Truth to be known, I'm not entirely sure µTorrent doesn't already do that since it repolls for almost every other error condition. I haven't upped a torrent in a while though and my box is too busy transcoding some Bleach episodes to create a torrent, so you'll have to check it yourself or wait for someone who knows to reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenalin_ Posted February 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 trackers just track/serve how many people are connected, and their IPs.This the main function of a tracker. It's like saying what a bt clients have just 3 buttons start/stop/open.Currently trackers have also many, many features(like advanced uploading forms, ratings of a torrent, request form, forum, search, private messages, much more).. Just like uTorrent (i mean, many features)And yeah, trackers never try to connect to clients to see if they're online. The client is supposed to send a stop message to the tracker when you stop a torrent or the client exits but I assume they also have a timeout to drop any peers from the list who haven't checked in after however long.Trackers connect to the clients to check if the port sended by the client are accesible, in this way tracker check if the client are under firewall or not. If the tracker have connects successfully, then the peers are "Connectable=yes", and is inserted into the peer list(as connetable=yes). And when other peers asking for peer list, only clients with connetable=yes are returned, because there's no sens to return connetable=no, because they have ports closed, and no one can connect to them. At least like this working TBsource familly tracker (the best open source tracker ever )The reason trackers don't connect to peers is because it's quite a bit more efficient to do it the current way, in both server load and bandwidth. Since increasing either of those costs money, it's far easier to do it the current way.How much torrents is uploaded on a avarage tracker ? 100 per hour ? And what is for a tracker 100 connects/hour ? (in my suggestion, tracker try to connect and say "to start" single time, when the torrent are uploaded, and only if the flag are present in the torrent)I'll say, this is nothing, because a avarage user have at least 20 torrents, and when he start his client, 20 concurent connections starts, in less than a minute all of them must be finnished.The problem are not in bandwidth/tracker loads, the problem are in correct/well documentation and implementation. And in support of other clients. And easy to integrate into the trackers. Just like was made for the Protocol Encryption(union of uTorrent and Azureus).And if this really worth it ? I mean, it is really so usefully to get the space in create torrent window(or maybe enable it be default ?, just enable this flag by default at torrent generation, if the tracker will support that, it will connect, if not, then not)I still love/like my suggestion You upload, and your torrent self-start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firon Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Just like a website, the connections are iniated by you, not the other side. Unlike websites, the connection is never persisent (keep-alives are disabled).This request is not possible in the way you asked for it.Also, connectable scripts are separate from the tracker. They aren't a tracker mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Buzzard Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Right, I've tried explaining to you but you obviously do not want to listen. You have some very incorrect ideas in your head (like what constitutes a tracker or that PE has anything at all to do with trackers) but I guess they're just going to stay there since you refuse to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenalin_ Posted February 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Hm, i think finnaly get what do you try to explain.Ok, then initiator of connection would be not the tracker, but the script what take®ister the torrent file.Is it better now ?(in my head, a tracker is all the scripts what servers to upload&display&annonce&allow ppl to share fellings(comments&forum)&give a rating&allow to communicate between users(private messages), ok, i think this is not like the specs says).Firon, thank you for unlock this topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Buzzard Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 In that case, you'd probably want to just enter a time on the upload page, rather than having to rewrite the tracker specs, and have the tracker delay tracking it until that time. Me, I'm still for just having the clients repoll the tracker after a short delay, simplify everyone's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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