Odd problem: Can only connect to same ISP

Hi,

I haven`t seen this problem before.

I`m on a new ISP (012 Smile in Israel). Over the last few days, I`ve noticed that some dl`s have been crawling while others have been flying along at speeds around 180 k. This morning I realized that the fast dl`s are because I have connected to someone else on the same ISP. If there are no peers from 012 Smile, the dl barely moves (1-2k) or doesn`t move at all.

I`m using a DLink router (D-300) port forwarded to 49125. The internet connection runs first through a VOIP router (AudioCodes MP202) then back to the DLink. I suspect this could be the source of the problem but when I try to connect directly into my laptop through a LAN port, or straight into the DLink (by passing VOIP) I have no internet.

If all fails I`ll call the ISP but I`d rather not announce that I`m p2p downloading if I can help it.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Your ISP is completely hostile to both file sharing AND connecting to the rest of the internet.

It might help to get a local computer expert to look at your double-router situation...

If that's true (and I've heard 012 traffic shapes) then why am I getting such good speeds when there is another peer on 012?

Plus, whatever is happening, it isn't affecting the internet in any other way that I can tell. Streaming video, for example, is very fast. I can dl a movie from joox in minutes. It feels like a port forwarding issue but I think I've done this properly. I've done this a dozen times before and went through portforward.com as well. Sigh.

They can tell if you're running file sharing or not, and apparently only really cripple it if you're downloading/uploading to people NOT on the same ISP.

Bummer.

Interestingly enough, this morning I rebooted everything and reset the open port. When I started a dl, I had a green light for around 30 seconds and the dl was flying. Then the arrow switched to the yellow icon and the dl slowed down. It's still at a respectable 100k but only because there are a few peers on the same isp. I guess there's not much I can do other than switch ISP's assuming the others aren't doing the same thing. Thanks for your help anyway.

As far as I know, Israel is pretty bad as far are truly open ISPs are concerned.

Ask around before you change ISPs.

There may be others with the same ISP as you that either found a workaround or don't have your problem/s.

Hi,

I am also in that ISP. I've been looking for solutions and alternatives for months now. I had no choice but to complain to 012, because my speed - while using torrents - was like 2% of my max, and almost never I could reach steady ul speeds, no matter at which level. I must say is not always like that.

I'm not so sure other ISP's in the region are so much better in that sense.

But if anyone here could tip us how to try to connect to IP's of the same ISP or network, that would be helpful. I have notice the same behaviour as morey has.

@morey, solving the portforward situation is important to rule out other problems besides the ISP throttle.

Just for troubleshooting porpuse, try logging in as adminstrator if you are not already doing so. Be sure the .exe is not marked as blocked (utorrent.exe properties in windows explorer). Try using just windows firewall (adding the corresponding rules, or letting ut to manage this by itself), instead of ZA (search for incompatible software here in the forum). Solving the portforward problem will not solve our ISP problem, but at least you may improve the connectivity.

Also, updating network drivers, and simplifying its properties could help too.

I've heard various stories about 012, that they throttle, and that they don't. I'm not sure. Having dealt with port forwarding and routers for years, I'm convinced the problem is either with 012, or has something to do with the VOIP router. I can't figure out how to port forward it, so I'll have to call 012 and hope that I can convince someone to tell me how to access it. What is odd is that if I try to disconnect VOIP, and connect directly into the D-Link router (Dir-300) I lose my internet connection.

I only have Windows Firewall at the moment, and it's not on while I'm trying to figure this out. Nevertheless, I tried an online port checker and I can't find any open ports. Yet, when I run Netstat, it shows established connections. Right now, UTorrent is dl'ing a file at around 12k even though UTorrent claims I'm 'not connectable' ( I have a red exclamation mark icon showing) right now.....wait...I just checked it again and I now have a green arrow, but dl has slowed to 7k. I'm all sorts of confused.

I guess I'm back to plan aleph, calling 012, but my Hebrew is still not great (I've only been here 3 weeks) and getting set-up was difficult enough because I couldn't find anyone there (except in the sales dept.) that spoke English. Maybe you'll have better luck.

If you want to speak directly about this, I'm at efes chamesh arbah shalosh shtaim chamesh arbah shalosh chamesh efes.

PS If there's something you're looking for, let me know.

012 throttles. AFAIK, Bezeqint doesn't.

@Ultima, As morey said, I've also heard stories about 012, for and against. The fact that 012 is listed in the "bad" ISP's is not an absolute prove. About other ISP's in the region, well actually I've heard pros and cons about them all (not that there are so many).

@Morey, about 012, I'm going to evaluate their performance for the next months. I've talked to their technical service. They answer kindly, and they did some general test about my connection, and even advice me about some things I could try on my end (it depends on your specific system, but I already wrote about some basic general tips), but they deny having sth to do with me not getting acceptable speeds using torrents. In fact, no ISP will accept that. If hebrew is a problem and you know there are people in sales that could help you (I'm sure there are), in case you would like to get some help from them, I would suggest asking them (in sales) for some technician to call you back in an adequate language (I would take note of both names, sales and tech for future reference).

About your specific config, I would suggest, if you can, trying to separate and simplify your connections. Try getting connected from PC-modem-cable (either "Hot" cable or adsl modem), without any router and using ethernet. If you can get this to work, start adding hardware to that basic. Configure drivers to their simplier and updated form (first update, because updating could erase any previous config). Then, if all the hardware is working, try adding any specific software. All this steps could guide you to discover one or more things that are not helping you to get connected.

There are other active forum's participants who are also connected to 012 smile, or bezeqint or barak-netvision. If you continue to check and post your results, maybe we all can give each other some tips.

Finally, I would suggest searching this forum for keywords related to your specific ssytem. Also, there are some "local" forums, but since you still have difficulties with hebrew, it can be more confusing than helpful. Don't hesitate to post again if you need more details or help.

Todah.

I have a Hot modem. I've tried connecting directly into a LAN port but I have no internet. They've set it up to run from the modem into the voip router (AudioCodes 202) and then back to my D-Link.

I wish I knew more about the Hot modem. It's a Thomson TMC 425. I can't find any documentation on it and have no idea how to access its controls. I'll try 012 and let you know how that works out.

@morey, 012 gives you Internet access only. All hardware related issues are Hot's responsability. E.g. if your cable is not receiving signal, then you should call Hot, not 012. BTW, look at the Thomson modem. Do you see all the adequate leds on? Is there any led blinking? Which one?

Try this. Just start your pc, and please do NOT connect to 012. Let all the cables and / or connections as they should, but do NOT "call" 012. If your Thomson is giving you signal AND you are DISconnected from 012, then open a web browser at this site:

welcome.hot.net.il

You CAN'T connect to this site if 1 (or both) of those 2 conditions are not true (signal ok AND disconnected from 012). If you get to see that site, then you are connected to hot. That's your first check. If both those conditions are true and you can't get to see that site, call Hot. If your modem is not giving the right signals, be sure all your cables and connections are ok and doublecheck again. If *then* you still have your modem not responding, call Hot.

If a technician from Hot was the one that set up your connections, then you should call Hot for assistance. After all your physical connections and / or hardware has been checked, THEN call 012.

All this is for checking general connectivity to 012. If that is ok (you can get to web sites and so on), then we can talk about torrent connectivity.

@Ultima, As morey said, I've also heard stories about 012, for and against. The fact that 012 is listed in the "bad" ISP's is not an absolute prove. About other ISP's in the region, well actually I've heard pros and cons about them all (not that there are so many).

How do you assume that I base what I say on the list? There are several long-time, knowledgeable users in the community that have had issues with 012 -- their issues were resolved by switching to Bezeqint. I don't need any further proof.

Some of those users are in our own internal beta team, people which I'd consider to be fairly knowledgeable.

After having now read through dozens of posts here and in other places, I'm inclined to believe 012 IS throttling, regardless of what they claim. The anecdotal evidence is overwhelming. I've read about and attempted all sorts of fixes, none of which do a thing. There's nothing left that explains why a dl with healthy peers and seeders should start normally, climb to a respectable speed then suddenly nosedive with all of the connections, except one or two on the same ISP, closing for no reason. I'm watching the log right now and it's astonishing.

People, I am not defending 012. I am also mostly convinced they are throttling. But this "fact" does not mean the problems morey has are related directly to their throttling. I'm also using 012, but currently I am connected and my firewall works fine. I have mostly always a green icon, which morey said he hasn't. I was trying to help you, morey, to get connected, to get a baseline where you can improve. Without ruling out every other aspect (software config, software compatibility, hardware,...) you can't really blame 012. Is the same with people wrinting here in the forum, complaining about everything and claiming there are bugs everywhere in ut, while they even didn't configure their own speed guide in ut.

@Ultima, I appologize. I might expressed myself in a wrong way. I was trying to say that things like this develops fast, very fast. For example, searching the forum for every ISP in the region, you may read about people being connected to 1 ISP and suggesting going to change for other "they heard is better". You may see that for some periods, 1 ISP is suggested to be fine (in relation to torrent throttling), but after a while the same ISP is also giving troubles. Is the same with ut and encryption methods. One day Alus adds some new method to overcome the throttling and users would say ut is the best. A week later those same users are disappointed because their ISP's have added some new feature to their traffic-management systems and what Alus added some days before is not helping anymore. Those users you say you trust probably were not wrong changing to bezeqint from 012, but nowadays you can find people complainig about bezeqint also (and, to be fair, also complaining about barak-netvision too).

So, going back to the topic, it would be great if morey could discard all other factors (important and needed even when connected to "good" ISP's). Even greater would be if anyone could help us to get "better" connections. Since both morey and myself are "sensing" that our speeds (dl and ul) are so much better with users of a related network (Hot-connected users for example, or 012 users), maybe someone could give us some tips about how to find those kind of peers (e.i. instead of just hoping ut could find those peers by itself sooner than later). Maybe those knowledgeable users you know could pass by this topic and give us some tips?

"maybe someone could give us some tips about how to find those kind of peers (e.i. instead of just hoping ut could find those peers by itself sooner than later)."

Really no such solution exists. Often ISPs use small ip ranges spread across a larger ip range shared by often numerous other ISPs...many of which are NOT local to the ISP in question!

Finding local peers is a hot topic in file sharing networking design. The problem is, many ISPs plain refuse to make things easier for us...and instead go with expensive file-sharing crippling hardware hopefully to discourage file sharing in the long run.

Without knowing an ISP's ip ranges, how can we determine "locality"?

...And I've NEVER heard of ANY ISP ever providing their ip ranges.

Certainly not one that's hostile to file-sharing.

uTorrent would also have to be totally redesigned. It'd need to act like there's 2 separate networks: a local/LAN one and an internet one...possibly even complete with their own upload slots, limits, etc!

This would probably also need to include "dual-WAN" features as well...so then we'd be up to 3 separate networks!

Here's a message thread (that almost devolved to a screaming match) on finding local peers:

http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=31519

@Morey, Have you tried any of my suggestions? Can you get a green icon?

@Switeck, thanks. In that thread, even at least 1 of those users Ultima and Firon were talking about is asking if something can be done to help us find people in the same network. The title of this topic is "Can only connect to same ISP". I don't want to open yet another discussion about locality usefulness or bittorrent protocol.

I just want to get some tips, if there are any. I would like to point out that almost every tip people like yourself are giving to users like Morey and myself is very very hard to effectively implement for us, just because of ISP's traffic management. I have read many many many posts about slots numbers, 3 kB/s at least, sequential dl'ing, recommended settings and so on. To a certain point, those things are helping me, so thanks. But in fact, every single combination of parameters has not helped me as much as getting connected to the "right" peer or seeder. I am talking about going from less than 4 kB/s (for hours and hours) to no less than 20 kB/s and more, no matter what parameters I was trying that day. To be clear, I'm not changing ut parameters every 2 minutes. I'm letting ut do its work with the same parameters for hours or days, and nothing else has helped more than connecting to the "right" peer. I am almost done with this task of setting the right parameters, because I think I found the right ones for me (if sth like that even exists).

So, I won't expect ut devs to change sth like the protocol or sth alike "for us". I am interested about some tips we could use to find those "right" peers sooner, probably in some manual way, not from ut natural tasks. It is possible those IP's in the same network won't be better than anyone else, and it is possible some user from some other network will be the best to share with, but Morey and myself (and it seems other local users also) are still interested in looking at this issue. 20 kB/s or so could be nothing to many of you, but it's more than 5 times the usual speeds I get.

So please, even if Switeck said there is nothing to do about it right now, anyone has any tips for us? (Switeck, I really appreciate your comments. Please do not take this as an offense. Maybe someone in the region has some suggestion? Or maybe all you mods suddenly could remember about something?)

@Morey, any news about your initial connectivity problems? Getting "a green icon" and having the right config (ut, and windows, and drivers) is still useful, no matter ISP's traffic shaping.

ady4um,

A simple answer is...if the "right peer" (one also on your ISP) is on the torrent, quite likely you'll get good speeds at least from him till you get as much as he has.

uTorrent is pretty good at finding and connecting to local peers, but it probably doesn't KNOW they're local...to it, they're just another peer that's perhaps a little faster than the others.

They're either there or they're not.

So you're just stuck with slow speeds till the lucky moment when you find a local peer.

With a VERY busy torrent with 100's if not 1000's of peers and seeds on it, there's probably a local peer or 2 on it...BUT uTorrent might hit connection max before finding it and you'd STILL get stuck with low speeds.

Now if you happened to know ALL your ISP's ip ranges, then maybe you could accomplish a little more...but that'd be quite a stretch even then.

It wouldn't surprise me if you can't also get at least slightly better speeds connecting to ips on other ISPs in your area...so you might want to know those ip ranges as well.

***With a VERY busy torrent with 100's if not 1000's of peers and seeds on it, there's probably a local peer or 2 on it...BUT uTorrent might hit connection max before finding it and you'd STILL get stuck with low speeds.***

Sorry about the delay responding. Very busy week.

This seems to be what's happening. I am getting a green icon, but there's no rhyme or reason to it. It appears, then disappears, even though I haven't changed anything, and even with the green icon, download speed doesn't change. Generally, when the green icon appears it only lasts a minute or two, then returns to yellow.

As ady4um wrote, our best solution is to try to find a way to connect to the 'right' peers. But, this is obviously difficult if we don't know the IP ranges of other Israeli ISP's. If we can figure out a general range for 012 Smile, is there a way to set UTorrent to only look at this range? At least that might give us a better chance of finding a good peer before we hit connection max.

Can't/won't your ISP tell you?

Haven't asked yet but will. In the meantime, found this info online: http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/name2ip.php?orgname=012.net.il

Which brings me back to my previous question, will UTorrent let me select a range/ranges to look at?

I've never been to Israel, I live in Moldova. For a couple of years our ISP are fighting hard on each other, and the one that fights hardest is the National telecomunication company. Because of that fight when connecting to peers from other ISP a can barely get 20kbps, while on the same ISP I can do 100Mbps! So I think that it is not uTorrent's problem but your local ISP (btw connecting to others thru an outside proxy here may be 100ths of times faster then connecting directly, it is just nonsense). Still I think too that uTorrent should at least provide the full list of peers that it found, not just the ones it connected to.

Right-click in peers window, Copy Peers List

...paste that in notepad.

I've actually been doing that for the last week, keeping track of 012 peers I've been connecting to. Eventually I suppose I might figure out the IP range for 012. But, in the meantime, I'm still wondering if there's a way to limit searches to specific IP ranges so I'm not wasting time (or bandwidth) on peers I can't connect to.

Thanks.