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Integrate WebUI with uTorrent STABLE (Build 474)

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Is there any way to integrate the WebUI with uTorrent STABLE (Build 474)

A site I favor quite a lot is about to ban uTorrent Beta (build Number 483).

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Their argument is:

"We have decided to stick with our current policy of banning betas. uTorrent beta was unbanned a while back to allow our users to assist with the testing and development however since there will never be another version of uTorrent under the current license/owner it is time to ban this dead beta."

The fact that there is nothing unstable about build 483 means nothing to them. If there is a flaw in 483 that requires it to be banned, they should have already banned it. How does utorrent no longer being developed make any difference to a build that was compiled months back, and has worked flawlessly since? Idiots.

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It seems the option is there if you hit Cntrl+P to bring up the options in uTorrent STABLE (Build 474). Can we just pull the webui files out of the beta and and place them in the proper location and enable the option in uTorrent STABLE (Build 474)?

Would that work?

Forgive my lack of knowledge and i am not currently where I can test this.

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Is there anything I can do at all, even custom code (of what I can edit) that would get any form of the WebUI working with uTorrent STABLE (Build 474)?

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Not sure about custom code, but LOTS of functionality was (were?) added after 474, in the builds leading up to 483. Changes were made so that µTorrent sends data in JSON instead of whatever format it used before (XML?). Many bugs were fixed as well. Frankly, using build 474 would make webui *hardly* usable ;\

I guess you can always try using the old versions of webui, if you can find them, but I don't see why people should have to work around stupid issues brought up by stupid tracker administrators. If they think their decision is right, I'd seriously think about leaving the tracker.

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all that was needed was for utorrent to upgrade the latest beta 483 and officially call it the latest stable release. for a moderator here to call the admins/sysops of a private site "stupid admins" for following a consistant policy that they have had in place for 2 years is a childish and ignorant statement.

that's definately a way to make those admins change their minds, lol! -the true "stupid bureaucratize fetishists" would more likely be the "new kids" in charge at utorrent who refuse to simply make one last official stable release out of build 483. -Doing so would be the quickest and easiest way to convince tracker admins that build 483 TRULY IS STABLE... or is there something they know about build 483 that convinced them it should not be a stable release...?

Don't be surprised to see many more private trackers banning build 483 in the near future.

"If they think their decision is right, I'd seriously think about leaving the tracker" -the 300 or so people using 483 on the tracker in question are encouraged to do what they feel is right, and if that means leaving the tracker, so be it.

I prefer to be civil in forums, instead of calling people names, since namecalling solves nothing.

edit: havign your own staffers join the private site in question, and start new spam threads in the forums is not helping your case, either:

Hi. A friend told me about this topic and I will try to answer your prejudice questions. Maybe I will get warning for this, but I feel it's right to explain the situation about µTorrent.

Beta means unworkable for public

Where should I start. Ludde worked on µTorrent almost a year, wrote 60k+ code lines and he got tired of work , so he sold his project and got payed. The only reason why betas after 1.6 were coming out is because Directrix pushed him to make them for Webui that he developed. When Ludde sold µTorrent, he signed that he can't have anothing to do with bittorrent clients anymore for many years (and many more conditions)... That is why he can't make latest beta as stable, but which indeed is. Since stable release only webui was changed, as I already stated. It was a stupid thing to do, but Ludde doesn't really care (the way i see it). So, that is why it's still called beta. Yes, betas have meaning, but here it's different.

New owner of µTorrent (Bittorrent inc) is connected to RIAA/MPAA

Wow, wow, slowly. First of all, µTorrent hasn't been updated since Ludde's ownership. And indeed it looks like it won't be for some time. Secondly, they said that new versions won't include any DRM software or similar stuff. Bittorrent inc hasn't released any new version, and so it will stays for quite of some time.

How much harm can µTorrent do to tracker?

None, nada. Count me one possibility that beta should harm tracker that stable version couldn't (or even any version). Even if new owner releases new version and if it will include any software, it will effect users and it is indeed their choice. Tracker won't have any damage done.

My suggestion?

Unban beta for the time being, so we can use it as long as we can say it's safe. , but we can't say that for sure and specialy now. We can use what we have and hope.

Greetings to admins, by µTorrent community helper iElectric

this person just joined that torrent site, and solely for the purpose of posting that in a brand new thread, when there was/were already several threads on the topic of the utorrent beta ban. I find it interesting that your own staff say "I also have this bad feeling µTorrent is not in good hands"

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http://forum.utorrent.com/profile.php?id=1240

Really? He's staff here? He's a member of the community, sure, but in no way is he "staff."

Anyhow, I'll admit, namecalling was a bad (stupid) idea on my part, so I'll apologize for that -- sorry. But in all honesty, I can not see why the latest beta build needs to be banned. As has been mentioned time and time again, it's more stable than the "stable" build, and very evidently, many people need to make use of the new webui feature in it that can't be used in any other way. Like you said, all it takes is a simple relabeling of the release, sure, but if at least that much has been realized, then why should the build be banned? Relabeling can't be done on our part because no one here can change it. I realize it's probably tracker policy and all to ban beta releases, but seeing as how no release timeframe has been announced by BitTorrent Inc, we could be waiting months (speculation) and there might not even be a release. For the members of the tracker who need to use webui, I think it's just a tad bit unfair to lock them out because of a simple "b" in the client ID (even though it's acknowledged and well known that the beta build is, again, more stable). It's like saying "oh I don't like you because you have a 'v' in your username" -- utterly ridiculous.

And again, for anyone who was offended with my namecalling, apologies (I was just a bit ticked off with the recent string of bans just because of a simple label -- I suppose that's no excuse, just an explanation).

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Admins on your site are so smart and so powerful, i can feel my knees shaking. Only thing you will succeed with your stubborn behaviour is losing more and more users. You banned almost whole Slovenian ISP a year ago, no reason. Just like this µTorrent "not working" thing. Ye, ban me, ban everyone so you can stay alone there and enjoy the fresh air.

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that site has no shortage of members, and if not being able to use that particular beta & webui stops someone from using the site, there are more people waiting to take your place. feel free to start up your own torrent site where you can make your own rules & policies. It's nothing personal, and as I said earlier, it was debated for quite some time by staff whether or not to ban build 483 or let it continue to be used. The pros & cons that were discussed are private, and I am continually amazed that people, some of whom are not even members of that site, feel that they should have a say in what goes on there. What part of "private" do these people not understand? When I go to someone's house, I follow their rules, and if I don't like their rules, I leave, I don't start questioning their decisions.

Tell the tracker to produce a VERY convincing argument as to why build 483 needs to be banned.

why? if I decide that I only want people who wear purple hats to use my website, why should I have to justify that to anyone?

Admins on your site are so smart and so powerful, i can feel my knees shaking. Only thing you will succeed with your stubborn behaviour is losing more and more users. You banned almost whole Slovenian ISP a year ago, no reason. Just like this µTorrent "not working" thing. Ye, ban me, ban everyone so you can stay alone there and enjoy the fresh air.

you were banned for knowingly spamming the forums. yes, a large block of slovenian IP's was banned last year for various reaasons; honest members with static IP's are allowed through those IP bans. What this has to do with the utorrent beta 483 webui, I have no clue....

Once again, 300 or fewer members of the site were using the beta, so if they all leave (most have elected to simply roll back to 1.6/474), we'll be sorry to see them go, but it will hardly result in a noticable drop in membership. Once again, if the current owners of utorrent simply release a new "stable" version of utorrent, I'm pretty sure it would be allowed.

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Oh really? I was one of those IPs (as you call it). I was banned to be in the cheater ring.. Whatever.. I did my best to seed and to keep ratio up than 5.. And what did I get for reward? Some stupid idea from admins, that it's time to ban some ips. And btw about static, whole SIOL dynamic ip list is banned. Users have to change ip 10 times to get a working one. And I didn't register only to post my opinion, but to give a tracker another chance. And again the glorious rule "only one chance on this tracker, you must be perfect"...

Why did you delete my post? You should see what does people have to say on your "action". You ban utorrent, close all forums on this topic and all new ones you claim to be SPAM, and ban users, even inviters. Now tell me, is it me or is this immoral? Make a poll, ask your members what do you think about your admins, or utorrent ban? No? You are affraid of outcome? I know, I am too. Won't see me again on your tracker, it's sad it is a nice community otherwise.

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@tequilavip

"all that was needed was for utorrent to upgrade the latest beta 483 and officially call it the latest stable release. for a moderator here to call the admins/sysops of a private site "stupid admins" for following a consistant policy that they have had in place for 2 years is a childish and ignorant statement."

PS. I meant that people following a consistent policy that they have had in place for 2 years fall under the bureaucratize fetishist I was talking about.

"that's definately a way to make those admins change their minds, lol! -the true "stupid bureaucratize fetishists" would more likely be the "new kids" in charge at utorrent who refuse to simply make one last official stable release out of build 483. -Doing so would be the quickest and easiest way to convince tracker admins that build 483 TRULY IS STABLE... or is there something they know about build 483 that convinced them it should not be a stable release...?"

The goal of my posts was to provide some amusement. It should be taken a bit lightly. My goal was not to convince an admins mind.

"Don't be surprised to see many more private trackers banning build 483 in the near future."

No worries, the trackers I use have good admins :)

"why? if I decide that I only want people who wear purple hats to use my website, why should I have to justify that to anyone?"

&

"The pros & cons that were discussed are private, and I am continually amazed that people, some of whom are not even members of that site, feel that they should have a say in what goes on there."

Not caring about its members is a sign of a bad admin/staff if you ask me.

Bad trackers are run as a favour from the staff to the users. Staff shouldn't be questioned and doesn't have to explain, you can just leave if you disagree.

Good trackers are run as a community with the admin deciding whats best for the community. Admins make mistakes now and then but they try to do the best for the community. Keeping most people happy while keeping a lot of factors under control. Of course u can only leave if you disagree but it is not used as a control measure.

Anyways:

Pros:

Latest version (with no new version in the foreseeable future)

More stable (including a few bug fixes)

webui

Only a beta in name

Cons:

Officially called a beta

Tell me where you see the logic in banning the Beta? Or did I mis important cons? I stay with my evaluation that you are either stupid or you value the official naming conventions so much it weighs up against all the other advantages. Which in my opinion indeed makes you a bureaucratize fetishist.

But to top it off µtorrent beta was allowed on your site but for some unclear reason it was now changed...

You are right. I don't have the right to decide what you should do with your site and I don't presume to. If I wanted you to change I would have been diplomatic. But I do have the right to give my opinion about what you do and even to make a bit of fun of it. Its not my problem if you can't handle criticism flavored with some humor and sarcasm.

I however do want to point out that I didn't know this was about bitmetv. I'm not a part of that website and have no idea about the going ons. But I know about it and appreciate the thing you have going. If I had known this up front I would have tried to be diplomatic and seriously try to convince you why I think banning µtorrent was an unnecessary move.

@crothos:

You obviously have no idea what the Nazi's were. They murdered millions of people based on their race, religion and sexual preference. To top it off they started a war that costs even more lives. And thats just the tip of the iceberg. To even compare staff that puts its own time and effort in a free service (even if its run with a bit of a iron hand :P) to them would make all those dead people turn in their grave and the living turn away pale. We're just having what I call 'a heated discussion'. You're making a disgrace of yourself by uncontrollably venting your frustration.

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Cons:

Officially called a beta

EXACTLY what I was going to say -- the only con mentioned (and the only possible con there could've been, considering the differences between "stable" and "beta") was the beta tag. If the pros and cons really were measured, discriminating against that simple letter is hardly a fair balancing act.

Once again, if the current owners of utorrent simply release a new "stable" version of utorrent, I'm pretty sure it would be allowed.

Again, only further proof to that fact that the "beta" label was the only criterion used to decide whether the build should be banned, and IMHO it's a pretty bad reason. The only thing I can offer is my response here, which appears to have been conveniently ignored. Instead, a previous quote of mine was picked out, targeted, and brushed off as if serious consideration were given into whether build 483 should be banned. IMHO, a serious discussion would consist of bringing up good reasons, and not just consist of pedantry with citations about how beta builds should be banned (presumably) because of tracker policy. If I've made an incorrect assumption, I can't be blamed, as all indications show the "beta" tag to be the only reason, the above quote most clearly.

Whatever, tequilavip's definitely right about one thing: it's their court, so it's their rules, and seeing as how nothing we've said has gotten through to them, it doesn't seem like there's anything that can be done about it. At the very least, we can say it's not their game, so there are always other trackers to move onto if webui is that important to you. I've heard of BitMeTV as well, but am unfamiliar with it, so I don't know what kinds of things they have there that make the tracker all the more special over other trackers, but for anyone out there using that tracker, you're just going to have to weigh your priorities (hopefully, you'll make a balanced and sound judgment about it, whatever the decision). I suspect it's not going to be to difficult a decision (I know I'd probably take content over a minor convenience myself), but for those of you who seriously need to use webui and are members of the tracker... good luck (at least until the next "stable" release of µTorrent anyhow) ;\

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Hahaha, the notion of tequilavip calling others childish and ignorant is just a little too rich for words. For those not on his tracker, he is universally acknowleged as an ass who often demonstrates his ignorance of all technical matters. He and a few other admins poison an otherwise genial community with their obnoxious and condescending manner. Then they use the actions of a few members who cheat to treat the rest of the community even more harshly. Here's an idea: maybe you shouldn't have banned so many good members for the trivial offense of not paying Your Holiness due deference, and your tracker would be full and you wouldn't have to deal with so many cheats and low-lifes. /rant off

Most of the points he covers are dealt with adequately above, but I just want to blow off any remnants of the fig leaf that utorrent build 483 was banned due to its beta status. The tracker staff clearly don't like the current owners of utorrent but are apparently too cowardly to come out in public and advance that argument straightfowardly and honestly. On their own forums, where they can control discussion with an iron fist, they openly state their entirely circumstantial and speculative case against uTorrent's "corruption." All this while their favored open source client, Azureus, has been found to be reporting ISP info back to the developers.

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no beating around the bush at all, lol!

do I trust the new owners of utorrent? nope. they are in bed with the same people who prosecute grandmothers & 12 year-olds for filesharing.

did Ludde build a good client? yes. I probably would have sold it for a lot less than he did if I was in his shoes!

did I use utorrent? yes. loved it in fact.

am I an ass? yessir, I'm the first to admit it.

do I have a reputation for being very harsh with people who are disrespectful and ignore site rules repeatedly? yes. I expect the exact same treatment on any forum I use. One of your moderators here, Firon, has been discussing things with one of our admins, and because he shows a little common courtesy, he is respected when we talk to him.

@iElectric: -if admins lock a forum thread because it has degraded into "nazis!" and "idiots!" and then post "this topic is closed for discussion, anyone attempting to re-start a similar thread will be banned", and then you start a new thread 1 hour after you join that starts off: "I realize this may get me banned, but...", and you do this just hours after the person who invited you to join recieved a warning for doing the same thing, you earned your ban. iElectric obviously can't follow rules, he openly admits in his above post that he was banned from an earlier account, and then in violation of the TOS opened a new one! It turns out that the earleier account that you were caught cheating on was not your first... you were caught once before that as well! Finally, your previous account was not banned because you had an IP that fell in a banned range, it was because you were actually caught cheating on both bitemtv & oink. You even admitted it in oink's IRC channel when trying to get your account there re-enabled! people like you who open multiple accounts every time they get caught ratio cheating are the reason entire IP ranges are banned! the sad thing is, directrix KNEW he had been previously banned for cheating when he invited iElectric... :-(

Anyway, to get back on topic: because our staff recognize the usefullness of the webui, we have privatly discussed our other concerns about the utorrent beta build 483 with some of the utorrent folks, and they actually seem somewhat reasonable when we explained our multiple reasons for a ban on utorrent build 483 (no references to our site being run by idiots or nazis. or even fascists!). hopefully something positive will come out of those discussions. I've been pleasantly surprised once or twice already by the people who have come to us privately. I guess some things are just better discussed privately than on public forums such as this one.

anyway, thanks for letting me have my say.

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Good post tequilavip

And I don't think the more serious people here are questioning your banning of anyone. I'm not. Banning a torrent client can frustrate some people. But starting multiple flame topics about it will result on a ban on pretty much any decent forum. Especially if words as Nazi are thrown around.

However why aren't we allowed to hear the multiple reasons to ban the Beta publicly? I want to understand why you are banning µtorrent. It might even help me understand other admins on other trackers who have made the same decision. And why if you dislike the current owners would only the Beta be banned and not all µtorrent versions? I mean both were made when Ludde was still owning and developing the code.

I really don't like privately discussing everything. Sure some things must be discussed behind doors but I don't think this is one of those things. By not telling us you give me the idea you are afraid the reasons you have wouldn't stand up to an open discussion... unless all reasons concern private matters but somehow that doesn't seem likely to me.

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my reasons for not trusting utorrent are found here: http://utorrent.com/privacy.php

Notwithstanding any other term of this Privacy Policy, we may release any personal information we obtain or collect when we believe its release is appropriate to comply with the law, enforce our Site policies, or protect ours or others' rights, property, or safety.

and

Data collected by our co-brand partners or third party web sites (even if offered on or through our site) may not be received by us. As such, we have no responsibility or liability for these independent policies or actions, and are not responsible for the privacy practices or the content of any such web sites.

the other reasons are being kept private because of ongoing behind-the-scenes discussions on several fronts, and if utorrent's people want those discussions publicly known, they can talk about them here themselves.

to answer your question, utorrent 1.6 was not banned outright because about 18,000 of the 24,500 members use it. If a good replacement client to utorrent was available at the moment, and we could successfully encourage most of our members to use it, I believe we would move to ban utorrent completely, as would MOST private trackers. When utorrent showed that it was a reliable client, we did just that, and within a month or two, we had gotten most of our member to migrate to utorrent from about 10 other clients which were then banned. Utorrent is still one of the best, if not THE best, clients created for bittorrent, but there are several potential replacements that could hit the big time this year, and I would gladly assist those developers with either beta testing (real testing, not just using the beta 'cause I like it's features) or financial donations to assist with development.

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I explicitly mentioned that privacy policy is not finished. Most of it is copied verbatim from the bittorrent.com one, and as such, some of it doesn't apply to this site, such as that section, since this site has no user registration like BT inc's. The forum itself stores no info except for your e-mail. Not even your birthday is asked for when registering.

And on that same page, it's mentioned that the client tracks -nothing- and nothing is ever reported back to BT inc.

Before anyone asks, yes, I deleted some posts.

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I look forward to reading a final version, then.

I explicitly mentioned that privacy policy is not finished.

not to me... I have no idea who you told that to, but I'm petty sure it wasn't me, since that page/version was just pointed out to me today, I had never seen it before... If anyone is trying to alleviate concerns over privacy issues, posting that version as I quoted above has the opposite effect on me, temporary or not.

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I'll be sure to tell you guys when it's finished. I only posted it to highlight the adware/spyware section and the part about no tracking info being sent back from the client to BT inc, and that it was being worked on.

And if no one told you that it's unfinished, then that's the fault of the admin who told you, 'cause I told him it wasn't finished. :P Only half of it, at best, has been tailored for utorrent.com.

To confirm what Ultima said about iElectric, iElectric is not a staff member. He's just a regular member.

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@tequilavip: In my defense, other than my stupid blunder with the namecalling (for which I've provided my sincerest apologies), I felt my posts addressed you with common courtesy. Granted, some of the things I said were said in a very pointed manner, but that was all in the hope of inciting an open dialogue regarding the reasons for the banning, so really, there's no need to thank us for "letting" you have your say, as I was actually hoping you'd elaborate some more... :P If you still prefer to keep the other reasons private, then as I (sorta) implied in my previous ranting post, I'm not going to bother pushing it.

So yeah, if you felt any of the above posts I've made previously to be discourteous, it wasn't my intent. And if you're wondering why this post came out of left field... I wasn't sure if you were saying that everyone in this thread besides Firon was being discourteous to you :P

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