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seeding limits

amber89

By amber89
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amber89 Advanced Member

amber89

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I have the same problem w/ uT (3.2) going WAY past seeding goals for some torrents, esp. slow ones.

It could become a real problem for some, now that ISP caps are becoming an issue (or may soon be).

I Have a minimum seeding ratio entered.

Also have CHECKED, "When uTorrent reaches the seeding goal, Limit the upload rate to: 0."

None of the torrents I'm mentioning had a Force Start.

As has been pointed out, "it's not seeding until the the torrent finishes downloading" (semantics).

Who cares, if it results in GBs more uploaded on one torrent than the seeding goal / ratio, because uTorrent didn't start counting seeding until the torrent finished? Sometimes if you let torrents run overnight, they stop d/l completely, but uploading continues steadily.

If it happened on very many, not sure what my ISP would do. Though their cap is large (for my normal activity), uploading 6, 8 10 x the size of several torrents is crazy. Is there no way to stop this?

Thanks.

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amber89 Advanced Member

amber89

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Anything in prefs to make it ignore seeding limits (other than for slow torrents, doesn't start counting toward seed limit till file finishes d/l? Wrong way to do it, IMO. If you want to UPload 100% of file size, uT should STOP at 100%.

AT&T now has 150 GB / mo cap. Some are reporting that AT&T is now starting to charge for going over.

Not hard for a few people to go over 150 GB, when one's a teacher. If can't resolve this problem, I'll either have to stop using uT, severely lower seeding limits & not let jobs run overnight, so I can check them.

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amber89 Advanced Member

amber89

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Nothing jumps out?

For now, I've (reluctantly) lowered the seeding limit. NOT that it'll stop "problem" torrents going WAY over seeding limit (ratio) - it probably won't. But slow D/L'g files going way over seeding ratio may cause exceeding internet data caps.

Maybe uT devs need to rethink how seeding ratios are defined.

IIRC, seeding ratio "count" starts when files finish D/L. If files D/L VERY slowly, by design U/L continues - often much faster vs D/L, but doesn't count toward seeding ratio.

Due to stricter data caps (& overage cost), the total U/L data for each file should count toward the user selected U/L ratio. "Seeding ratio" is matter of semantics. UT's "old" U/L behavior may need to change.

Very slow D/L files w/ decent U/L rate can U/L 100's MBs before the count of seeding ratio begins.

IF... one knew which files would D/L very slowly, they could limit the U/L rate for ONLY those files. Impossible to predict - some files start D/L fast, then drop to nothing (even some w/ good initial # of seeds) - while U/L rate continues high.

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rafi Advanced Member

rafi

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Can you give one more example with 2 screenshots of the info tab + torrent list-view of a torrent that exceeded those above limits (30 min/100% right ) ?

1 - at the time the download completed

2 - just before the seeding stops (@ 29 min after download completes)

Thanks

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amber89 Advanced Member

amber89

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Now you're just messin' w/ me - right? ;) Do you want the screen at 29:00 min or 29 min, 59.99 sec?

1st, the "30 min seeding" is a MINIMUM time. It may seed for 2 days, if it's slow & hasn't reached 100% (for torrents that stop when supposed to).

There is no "max seeding time" setting. I suppose if a job was U/L VERY fast, so it exceeds seeding limit before 30 min (current setting), then it'd continue seeding for AT LEAST 30 min. That's NOT the case w/ the ones I'm talking about. Vast majority of my torrents seed > 30 min & the bulk stop at 100 %.

Sorry, I don't have any examples left or that are in that state. :( If you tell me what you're hoping to see, let me know & may be able to recall from memory.

If I could find a SMALL torrent (cause I don't want to make "Ma" mad), in my spare time, that:

* turns out to D/L slowly

* turns out to have somewhat decent U/L speed

then I would. I don't understand what catching a screen at 29:xx min would show.

AFA, when "un obedient" jobs finishes, it just shows they've u/l way more than 100% & the ratio column also shows > 100%. That tells me the ratio counter starts counting when job 1st starts u/l, but because the d/l is slow, it may have u/l >> 100% BEFORE d/l finishes. (Whether still accurate or not, I read SEEDING doesn't start till AFTER d/l finishes).

On some jobs, it just doesn't observe the seeding ratio limit. That may be a matter of semantics. AFAIK, all jobs that finish d/l before the seeding limit is reached, continue seeding & stop at the set 100%.

It appears to be a flaw in design & failure to consider some jobs will have very slow d/l & (possibly) decent u/l speeds, causing them to u/l >> than seeding ratio.

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amber89 Advanced Member

amber89

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@ rafi, DeadWingKnight

I have a couple of torrents that recently finished & went over the seeding cap (not by a huge amt - in MB).

They finished during night, so wasn't able to capture any "last minute" screens. This issue isn't brand new, but don't remember it a yr or more ago. Maybe I should delete the settings.dat file & start fresh?

If there's some specific data you're looking for from the Info tab or torrent list, I will take time to take screens, u/l to I.S., then here.

In general, the jobs that exceed u/l cap BY THE MOST, are ones where avg d/l speed is LOW (in some cases, < avg u/l speed - but not always).

Ones taking longest to d/l (lower avg d/l speed; fewer seeds & peers), while still having "decent" u/l avg speed, are ones that exceed u/l cap by the greatest %.

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amber89 Advanced Member

amber89

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Thanks rafi. Looked at your screens. The shots of the torrent list don't show the U/L : D/L ratio, so looking at the Info tab screens incl., appears (as test?) you set u/l ratio at 20% & 100%, & d/l same torrent (284 MB) 2x? Now, as said, MOST of my torrents stop at the set u/l ratio. I could u/l screens of those, but proves nothing. More now than ever, more torrents go past seeding ratio by more than couple MB or 1 - 2%.

Ones in screens below aren't big problems, but are only examples I have now. Many in past have gone over ratio by several hundred MB - each. Fortunately, they a minority.

screen - torrent list w/ 2 going over (current) u/l ratio of 33%

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/99/ut32exceedulcap.jpg/

screens of Info tabs for the 63 & 242 MB files.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/ut32exceedulcapinfotab6.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/ut32exceedulcapinfotab2.jpg/

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rafi Advanced Member

rafi

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Yes, @ 20% & 100% (tried also 99%), with the same torrent, increased it each time, and it always stopped at 0.20 0.99 and 1.0 as in the info tab. If there is a math error there (or on the main view) - I suppose it will error in stopping in time...

Edit:

Speaking about time, the stop condition is when *both* the limit has been reached *plus* the minimum time has been reached. Your examples lacks that info. In theory it will exceed the set limit if the min. set time did not yet elapsed. In my example, we always exceeded the min. time that was set.

And back to the original issue:

Though their cap is large (for my normal activity), uploading 6, 8 10 x the size of several torrents is crazy. Is there no way to stop this?

Ratios is not the way to handle *global* ISP quotas. There is this other feature - global transfer caps' limits that you should really be using.

And I recommend to stop using ImageShack since they do not allow zoom for non-premium accounts. I reverted to ImageBam...

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jbebad Advanced Member

jbebad

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I can understand the concern about continuely uploading at a high speed while downloading at a low speed and the ratio shoots up. If ratio limits are to apply to all upload activity - even to torrents that are currently in a downloading state - there are some issues that need to be addressed. Automaticly stopping, starting, stoping (again) .. around that limit is going to be very resource intensive. Snub all when the ratio is reached. Download another piece therefor you are below the ratio (goal) - or download a set number of pieces to be a certain percentage below the goal. unSnub the peer (all connected peers?). Send the piece to one peer. re-snub all the peers, cancel/ignore those that you unSnubbed but have yet to send the piece you sent to someone else?

My point is it can get a little crazy being snubbed/unsnubbed/piece/snubbed/........ and the network overhead of bouncing back and forth from being a peer you can download from and to a peer you cannot - creates a lot of problems for other users who are trying to get the torrent to a completed status.

Perhaps a change in Preferences -> Bandwidth could/should be done. Zero now means unlimited - and for downloading that is fine (I guess). But it would seem that some people want to have zero mean zero - perhaps -1 could mean unlimited. If uTorrent did use ratio limits while the torrent is a download state then it could set the bandwidth to zero to stop the upload - highlight the torrent by changing the status color - to ... yellow for example - so you would know you are downloading but not seeding. Then the user would/could manually reset the bandwidth to start the seeding process again.

Just my two-cents.

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amber89 Advanced Member

amber89

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Thanks rafi & jbebad,

Rafi - I can assure you all the jobs that exceed the u/l ratio, far exceed the my 30 min minimum seeding time. What ever prob is, not sure that's it - but WILL try lowering min seeding time. As said, most of "problem" jobs have uploaded more than set "minimum (seeding) ratio" (or close to it), BEFORE the file finishes D/L. For those, if I set min seeding time = 0, they'd still exceed u/l ratio.

Point on Queuing Preference Page verbage: Shouldn't it say (or behave as), "Maximum ratio?"

Now that data caps are more common, knowing exactly how much will be u/l is more of an issue.

Yes, I know there's the Global Transfer cap. But if some torrents continue to exceed the u/l ratio by a lot, it results in unnecessarily reaching that global cap much faster.

I'll try lowering min seeding time & see. Problem is, I'll have to wait for a torrent that will possibly exceed the u/l ratio. If that doesn't work, I'll start over w/ new dht, settings & resume.dat. One may be corrupted.

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amber89 Advanced Member

amber89

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I'll try lowering min seeding time & see.

Nope. Lowering seeding time = 1 min & having min. seeding ratio = 35% made no difference. Still went over 35% & this one DID finish d/l before seeding started.

However, on the day I took screens, posted in # 13, some running the same day stopped exactly on the U/L ratio.

Must be something corrupted w/ the prgm or .dat files - if no one else is having this problem.

I'll start over w/ a clean slate & see.

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  • 4 weeks later...
rfmjm3 Member

rfmjm3

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ahhh that's what that means, thank you. the way i ready it it looked to me that after i reached the seed limit the max speed you would get was 20K so as not to hog the band width and let other people get the files they need. hmm, is that possible to do?

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DreadWingKnight Advanced Member

DreadWingKnight

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If you have sane global upload and queue settings, you can leave that setting unchecked entirely and just let the torrents run.

Torrents that have not yet reached the seeding goal will ALWAYS get priority over ones that have, and the first 3 torrents that have not yet finished downloading will get priority over ALL seeding torrents with your current settings.

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amber89 Advanced Member

amber89

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UPDATE: my issue w/ UT not stopping ON the U/L ratio. All my settings were correct.

However, uninstall / clean reinstall (del all settings.dat, etc.) DID fix the problem. Guess it wasn't a SETTINGS problem (displayed in UI), but corrupted file - somewhere.

Now, have new issue for another post.:|

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