Trendle Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Hey all. :cool:I have this weird issue... My download speed is throttling my upload speed. The ammount of throttle seems to be somewhat proportional to the ammount of DL speed. Here are some graphs to illustrate what I'm talking about:[see post #15 for more detailed graphs]Limiting download speed makes upload speed drop, as demonstrated here:I'm using 3.3.2-30067. I did experience similar behavior with the 3.4 alpha. I'm not going to try 3.3.1 because it works awful for me (for whatever reason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciaobaby Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?pid=748410#p748410 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trendle Posted August 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?pid=748410#p748410Probably the "tit for tat" algorithm kicking in, where peers will send pieces they have, to other peers that provide pieces that they want.I'm not sure that tells me anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciaobaby Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Okay let's see a screen shot of Preferences -> Bandwidth.uTorrent version AND build?And how are you "throttling" the download speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trendle Posted August 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Okay let's see a screen shot of Preferences -> Bandwidth.uTorrent version AND build?And how are you "throttling" the download speed?I'm not throttling the DL speed. DL speed throttles UL speed.I used the Azureus calc for my bandwidth settings, based on 522kBps UL speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciaobaby Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 I'm not throttling the DL speed. DL speed throttles UL speed.So probably all that is happening, is that peers are disconnecting or not requesting/sending pieces, and if they disconnect both upload AND dowmload drop at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trendle Posted August 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 I'm not throttling the DL speed. DL speed throttles UL speed.So probably all that is happening' date=' is that peers are disconnecting or not requesting/sending pieces, and if they disconnect both upload AND dowmload drop at the same time.[/quote']My DL doesn't drop. Please, see the graphs on the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciaobaby Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 My DL doesn't dropSo what is your query?????The fact that rates can and do vary almost in sync on a peer to peer network, where both rates depend on the other peers not your client? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trendle Posted August 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 My DL doesn't dropSo what is your query?????The fact that rates can and do vary almost in sync on a peer to peer network' date=' where both rates depend on the other peers not your client?[/quote']Not sure if serious or trolling? What is it about the issue you don't understand? Have you read the whole OP and seen the graphs carefully?On the other hand, maybe you just can't help me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciaobaby Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Maybe if your screenshots weren't minuscule there might be a better chance of seeing what you do. The pastel colours are bad enough to see anyway without reducing the image size as well.However.By "limiting download 'speed' you actually mean "setting an maximum download rate, and if that is the case, getting a screenshot of "Upload and Download" so the point where the rate limits are changed could be seen and therefore make a correlation of the changes is evidentAll your graphs show is that at some point the upload speed drops off, and with no reference point on the graph for what the max rate is set to at the point it drops away , the graph is just a bunch 'jaggy' lines overlaying a grid showing what we already know, and that is that BitTorrent is NOT a constant rate protocol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trendle Posted September 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Maybe if your screenshots weren't minuscule there might be a better chance of seeing what you do. The pastel colours are bad enough to see anyway without reducing the image size as well.Right click -> Open image in new tab.It's the forum that makes them that size. The SS's are large enough.However.By "limiting download 'speed' you actually mean "setting an maximum download rate, and if that is the case, getting a screenshot of "Upload and Download" so the point where the rate limits are changed could be seen and therefore make a correlation of the changes is evidentAll your graphs show is that at some point the upload speed drops off, and with no reference point on the graph for what the max rate is set to at the point it drops away , the graph is just a bunch 'jaggy' lines overlaying a grid showing what we already know, and that is that BitTorrent is NOT a constant rate protocol.The graphs are very clear in indicating the following pattern: Download speed throttles upload speed. Yes, BitTorrent is P2P, but you're naive if you think you can't get constant rates with P2P. In this case, there's no chance whatsoever that the drops in UL speed are caused by the P2P network itself... it's caused by the increase in DL speed, and again, this can be seen in the graphs.The graphs show no set bandwidth limit, the only exception being the 4MBps part, which I indicated. UL speed is always unlimited in all the graphs. I did test setting a limit for the UL speed, specifically to 460kBps. This made the UL speed unable to go past 240kBps. Immediately setting it to unlimited afterwards made it go up to ~350kBps, which is the rate that I get when my DL speed is maxed out (4.9-5MBps). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciaobaby Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 The graphs show no set bandwidth limit, the only exception being the 4MBps part, which I indicated. UL speed is always unlimited in all the graphs. I did test setting a limit for the UL speed, specifically to 460kBps. This made the UL speed unable to go past 240kBps. Immediately setting it to unlimited afterwards made it go up to ~350kBps, which is the rate that I get when my DL speed is maxed out (4.9-5MBps). Maybe but we cannot see evidence of, we only have your supposition or deductions, there is no verification that the upload speed dropped off at the same point as the download limit changed, without having reference points on the graph, it is simply a coincedence.This is a graph from 3.3.1.30017And it shows nothing like what you are describing.If I applied deductive reasoning to that graph, I could assume that setting a download limit caused an INCREASE it the speeds the client was achieving.PROOF of a correlation is required not an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciaobaby Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Oh and just by the way, it WAS the images at tinypic I was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trendle Posted September 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 I know I should've taken screenshots of both the UL & DL graph, but I did the annotations on the graphs to show the points where the speed changes. It is no coincidence, the points I marked are accurate.But it's obvious you won't take my word for it, so I will take new screenshots that show both the UL & DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trendle Posted September 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 There you go:No bandwidth limits set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafi Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 I bet your connection max upload rate is ~600K, which caps your net-upload once your download overhead (acks) increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trendle Posted September 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 I bet your connection max upload rate is ~600K, which caps your net-upload once your download overhead (acks) increases.But why? My max upload is 522kBps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafi Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 But why? My max upload is 522kBps.Exactly because of that!!! That is how the Internet works... download overhead/acks + upload are competing over allocating this ~500K bandwidth. When one increments, the other decrements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreasvb Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 You can try enable Full-duplex on your NIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafi Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Full duplex is the default Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trendle Posted September 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 It's set to 'Auto Negotiation' by default. I can set it to full duplex only, but I'm guessing it probably won't make any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafi Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Yeah, auto-neg results in full duplex, unless there is some specific issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trendle Posted September 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Well, time to play some Natural Selection 2 and stop worrying, I guess. I don't really understand the concept of DL increment = UL decrease, but if you say it's like that I believe it. At least now I know it isn't my ISP screwing me over or bad network configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafi Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 If you set an upload limit, to say ~400K (leave ~3% of the max download as spare to accommodate for the DL acks in the upload bandwidth ) , your download will almost not be affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trendle Posted September 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 If you set an upload limit, to say ~400K (leave ~3% of the max download as spare) , your download will almost not be affected.My DL is fine, it maxes out no problem. It's just that the UL goes down when the DL goes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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