Forum organization?

[vurlix]

Why does everyone think of a wiki as a magical solution or cure to people's unwillingness to read/search any available documentation?

[MrTufty]

Because it's the commonly accepted solution to any documentation issue, even if it doesn't actually help.

I don't think it'll make much difference to be honest, but at the same time I think it's worth considering simply as a way to document uTorrent properly - at the minute we're a little short of full instructions.

[wiggo]

There's no need for a wiki. Just make a Documentation section at the forum and recruit a documentation admin for it.

It could work like following.

Everyone will be able to add new threads, for example "How to configure your firewall". When the thread has been filled with enough documentation replies an admin can make the thread "Sticky" and remove all uncessecary replies. Otherwise an admin can gather all important replies about that subject and lock the whole thread and put the gathered information in a new Sticky thread.

People will then be able to add replies to the Sticky thread with suggestions/additional text that can be added to the first post in the thread.

This would work pretty smooth.

[slayers]

Why does everyone think of a wiki as a magical solution or cure to people's unwillingness to read/search any available documentation?

I don't. What I really think is that there is NO magical solution to that.

But I don't expect magic or a perfect solution. I'm pragmatic, what CAN be done. While there will always be those as you described, there are (many) others that do read/search. What do they have now?

Forums are meant for discussing complex issues or problems that are hard to find through search. It's nature is unstructered, it's messy. If you only have that, your mods are going to go crazy And who really wants to wade through pages and pages of discussion? A Wiki was made for collaborative effort and to give direct answers. But hey, there are other more simple ways to do it too (except I think it puts more on your sholders...).

[jroc]

Better FAQ and forums mods. About the wiki: I helped someone solve I problem by going to a wiki. But the problem was an OS problem, not with Bittorrent or the client itself. Should they have been able to find it themselves? Yes. If it was either in the FAQ or explained in the FAQ where to look. So a wiki isnt absolutely necessary. Cuz half the problems/questions could be solved/answered in the FAQ. The other half in general Bittorrent wiki's already out.

And i think wiggo's idea is an excellent one. Its kinda like a wiki if u look at it. Ive seen it done on many forums with success.

[canuckerfan]

also perhaps a pinned topic in the "Found Bugs" forum with the already noted bugs to deter repitition.

[Keloran]

Why does everyone think of a wiki as a magical solution or cure to people's unwillingness to read/search any available documentation?

whilst a WIKI wont solve that specific problem on its own, it will improve the situation

[dajojo88]

Although a wiki would be cool and is the new thing to do, it would not be very effective in solving the problem of users who are unwilling to search before posting. These are the users who are causing the greatest problem, at least in the feature request forum. Also, i noticed that many people who post on this forum are simply interested in increasing their post count. This leads to very many excessive posts that simply state either the obvious or are rude remarks typed only to make the uninformed feel insignificant. There are many users on this forum who cannot handle the idea of alternating opinions, especially in the forum request board. It gets old and an additional mod would definitely help sort out all of the issues i have mentioned.

[Smoovious]

Perhaps making additional subtopics for the high-volume stuff as well...

Like, for example, in the case of bug reports, create a sub-topic for each new version, like "Bugs related to v1.1.7.2", and new bugs will go in there.

As each bug is addressed, lock out the topic and/or sticky it to keep it at the top of the list.

If someone posts a bug report, with the stupid topic of "Found a bug" or something equally vague, a moderator can change the topic to something more descriptive and relevant. When the bug is addressed/fixed, luddy can lock out or sticky the topic.

New people to the bug section, can see at the top of the topic list that maybe their bug has already been dealt with instead of trying to wade through pages and pages of topics to see if it has been addressed already.

[Ultima]

whilst a WIKI wont solve that specific problem on its own, it will improve the situation

The way I see it... If people aren't willing enough to search through a forum, they won't bother to look at a wiki (or maybe even a help file for that matter). Thus, a wiki probably won't improve the situation by much, if at all.

Adding more moderators is probably a good idea, as the devs don't have all the time in the world to worry about managing the forums (I wouldn't mind being one =]).

[Sanchez]

too late.

An FAQ is being built, it should be finished at some point in the weekend. Should help quiet a bit, or at least let us lecture people to use the FAQ. Until they do.

[jroc]

The way I see it... If people aren't willing enough to search through a forum, they won't bother to look at a wiki (or maybe even a help file for that matter).

I think u hit the nail on the head. Thats why I like wiggo's idea so much. (combined with a better/more detailed FAQ) It will be in the forums. And I see the "please use search" post in every form. Brilliant.

[Marshy]

Bugzilla is far too complicated...

But I could go for a Wiki. You could even put the FAQ in the Wiki and just link to it in a sticky called "FAQ"

do we really need a wiki for a non open source program?

there really isnt much we can do with it...

[Keloran]

Bugzilla is far too complicated...

But I could go for a Wiki. You could even put the FAQ in the Wiki and just link to it in a sticky called "FAQ"

do we really need a wiki for a non open source program?

there really isnt much we can do with it...

wiki != o-s

[r00ted]

I think the forums are quite disorganized and it's not very easy for newbies to get answers to their questions quickly

I can agree to that, hence the double posts/threads.

A lot of forum threads just turn into general chat after the main question has been answered...

yea, hence the need for more moderators, to lock/moderate threads

Any suggestions?

All of the one's you mentioned are good.

* Better FAQ / Web-based manual - this could go hand in hand with the wiki. A section for custom questions and answers. Maybe as they are answered, they could be removed, and put into a forum sticky? Or something, since Wiki vandalism does sometimes occur....

* Wiki - a community effort to create an awesome manual, sounds good to me.

* Bugzilla bug tracking system - dont think this is really necessary. I like the idea of the bugs posted on the forum. Bugzilla would require a new interface, and new passwords/usernames, and some people may not like it, since the Bugzilla formats I've seen are kind of on the tecnical side (asking specific OS information/versions/etc....)

* More forum moderators - hands down, probably the best idea. Of course, it's a matter of someone stepping up to the plate

[Keloran]

more mods are defenatlly a good idea, (gratz to silverfire)

bugzilla is totally customizable it doesnt have to be as intensive as most, but it is kinda overkill for uT

wiki, just because you submit something doesnt mean it gets accepeted, thats one of hte advantages mods of that can accept what gets put into the wiki

[Loatroll]

Aye, I suspect a Wiki would not help too much.

Bugzilla is a great idea, but as others have said it might be too much. (though it would certainly be nice )

[silverfire]

Now that we're using PunBB, I feel like I'm missing my 'Mark all posts as read' button T_T

[Ultima]

It's there at the top right hand corner of any forum listing O.o

The only problem is the fact that it doesn't mark posts as read after you already have read it (some sort of workaround is in the form of a mod). Version 1.3 of PunBB should be able to mark posts read posts as read.

[Determination]

there's a mod that does it, but I have yet to get it working with my punBB install.

[Hazar]

even though this doesn't have to do with organization too much, could someone turn off the subscribe to your own threads by default setting?

[splintax]

I suggest a wiki and more moderators.

For the record, I'd be happy to be a moderator. Used to moderate a private site before it was closed, and currently moderating a smaller private site..

[1c3d0g]

Will that smaller site close down too?

Hint: if you have to ask to be a mod, don't hold your breath...

[splintax]

Heh, well, I'm just saying - since there doesn't seem to be that much of a community here yet (although I might be wrong) if the devs are looking for people, I'm available. I wasn't asking to become a mod. (BTW, the original site wasn't so much closed as it was shut down.. )

[TheBear]

IMO, there isn't much community yet here as many of the postings revolve around making µTorrent more like other clients.

I feel that when people catch on the the fact that being like BitComet or Azureus or whatever isn't the reason for posting here and that putting "pressure" on their developers to make the changes required on those clients is going to sort out their user problems much more effectively, then the community will develop along the lines it was meant to.

Just my two cents.